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To Muslims,
I asked this before in a different forum, but didn't get an answer. (Not a full one, anyway.) Hopefully more people will see it here and someone will know the answer.
An aya from the Qur'an clearly says that no one can bear the sins of another, yet Muhammad was recorded having prayed for the dead shortly before his death. Muhammad also put half a palm leaf on graves, seemingly to make their stay in hell shorter. So isn't Muhammad "bearing" others' sin by prayer and putting down leaves?
Sahih Bukhari
2.23.443
The Prophet once passed by two graves, and those two persons (in the graves) were being tortured. He said, "They are being tortured not for a great thing (to avoid). One of them never saved himself from being soiled with his urine, while the other was going about with calumnies (to make enmity between friends). He then took a green leaf of a date-palm tree split it into two pieces and fixed one on each grave. The people said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why have you done so?" He replied, "I hope that their punishment may be lessened till they (the leaf) become dry."
I realize this sounds like a contradiction, but it isn't meant that way. I've studied a lot of apparent contradictions in the Qur'an and Bible, so my thinking pattern has reflected that. In reality I think it foolish to assume there are contradictions anywhere, especially in holy books. With so much complexity there appears to be contradictions, but usually aren't.
On a related topic, does Islam really teach that Muhammad will intercede for Muslims on Judgement Day or in hell? Or is that just a myth?
Thanks and salaam!
JBJ
servant_of_Allah
24-01-2002, 07:50
Hi JBJ !
"So isn't Muhammad "bearing" others' sin by prayer and putting down leaves?"
I have a very simple question for you. Who gave you the idea that if you pray for someone (asking Allah to forgive them), then that means you're taking up their sins? This idea is definitely not found in Islam, and Allah knows best.
After you answer this question of mine, we can proceed. Remember, the question is "Who?"
"I realize this sounds like a contradiction, but it isn't meant that way. I've studied a lot of apparent contradictions in the Qur'an and Bible, so my thinking pattern has reflected that. In reality I think it foolish to assume there are contradictions anywhere, especially in holy books. With so much complexity there appears to be contradictions, but usually aren't."
Hopefully, after we finish discussing this topic, you will realize and learn alot more than you do understand right now, Insha Allah.
"On a related topic, does Islam really teach that Muhammad will intercede for Muslims on Judgement Day or in hell? Or is that just a myth?"
Muslims believe that Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) will be granted permission to intercede for Muslims on the Day of Judgement, and Allah knows best.
Bye,
Servant of Allah.
Hi Servant of Allah!
Who? I did. It's completely my own question. Perhaps answering what "bearing" means in the Qur'an would clarify it.
So if Muhammad can intercede, then people, Muslims anyway, don't always get exactly what they deserve, they may (or may not) get better than they deserve, right? Can you give me a reference for Muhammad interceding?
Yes, hopefully I'll learn more.
Thanks.
JBJ
Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.
Greetings and good day to all.
I see that it has been a while since this particular topic of discussion has been active. But I also find that it is an important topic for all to better understand. Muslims and non-muslims alike.
In praying for the dead, neither is Mohammed(SAAW) nor any other muslim for that matter, taking on the sins or responsibilities for any other soul. It is a mere matter of having mercy for that particular soul that anyone should pray for anyone else, whether living or dead. We are reminded and reassured throughout the Quran, as reminder as well as warning, that each soul bears it's own burdens. No soul can bear the burdens of others.
It is human nature, even without the realms of Islam, to first of all seek the ONE Creator, and plead with Him for our daily sustenance, protection, deliverance from oppression and evils, and for eventual bliss in paradise. This is apparent by the history of mankind returning to God, repenting in prayers, and seeking His guidance, mercy, and forgiveness.
This is also a common thread in Islam as well. To return to the Almighty God, repenting for sins, seeking forgiveness, desiring direction and guidance, as well as asking for blessings to be bestowed upon those whom we love and care about, including the deceased. It is, in fact, a general feeling, that since the deceased can no longer act on his own behalf, in prayer or other deeds to come closer to God, and to attain His mercy, that we are pushed to the point of seeking a term of intercession for them, by praying for their forgiveness and for their salvation from the eternal death and torment to be found in Hell. Surely, what a person has done during his time is his/her own testimony for or against himself...but as well is the respect and love he/she has earned by the souls on this earth, which is reflected in their concern for them by praying for them.
We find many times in the hadiths, as well as in verses from the Quran, not only a definite explanation or revelation of a said incident or directive, but as well with that very same hadith or verse from Quran a parable by which to mold our own lives. So it is with this particular hadith mentioned by JBJ.
In the prophet's (SAAW) action of splitting the leaf between the two graves, and placing it upon those graves with the words of prayer for the agonies of torture to be lifted or eased for those souls for the edenture of the time it takes those leaf halves to dry and crumble, is an example of his own human mercy for fellow humans, and his wish for their tortures to be lessoned. We also find in this a great example to make prayer through supplication to God for the forgiveness of those souls who have sinned. Even if perhaps we do not know those souls. The mere fact to realize that we ourselves are all sinners, and that we are truly at the mercy of God for forgiveness, is enough to plunge even the hardest of souls to ask for forgiveness for others, in the hopes that others will in turn do so for us when we are eventually in our graves, no longer able to repent and ask for our own forgiveness.
It is not the case that he who asks for forgiveness for another is taking upon himself the sins of that soul, but merely a type of intercession or pleading for the forgiveness of that soul.
As well, we have been told that Mohammed(SAAW) will be granted the blessing of being an intercessor for muslims on the Day of Judgement. That is to say, that he will intercede for those who have submitted to the will of God. That is not necessarily to say that those who claim to be muslims, yet not submitting to the will of God knowingly and arrogantly, will be saved. Surely, Allah knows best. And Allah is the most just of judges.
Ah, one more comment before I close this post. And I am not quoting this hadith verbatum, but rather paraphrasing it in relating it to you here.
We are told by the hadith (this comes from Sahih Al-Bukhari, although again, not word for word quote) that we are all witnesses on this earth one for the other. In a funeral procession which passed by the companions of the prophet(SAAW) once, some of his companions made a comment about the bad character of that deceased as his body was carried on to the graveyard for it's burial. The prophet's(SAAW) comment to their comments on his character of his lifetime was something like: 'shahadah' (translated as 'witness'). A second funeral procession progressed by them, and the companions again commented on the character of the deceased in his lifetime, this time commenting on his good character while he was living. Again, the prophet(SAAW) commented: 'shahadah' (witness). Later, his companions gathered to ask him what he meant by that simple and short comment as they themselves commented on the characters of the deceased as they progressed on to their gravesite. His answer was something to the effect: A person is witnessed during his life by his fellow man. What they declare as his character is witness to his actual character, and it is written upon his record that is his final judgement of his character.
What we learn from the lesson of this hadith is that it is the impression that we make by our very actions of our lives and interactions with our fellow man during our lives, which witnesses for or against us on the Judgement Day. Beware of how you interact with others...for it may in fact be the determining factor of your eventual resting place, or place of abode...whether you will be tormented in hell for your actions, or whether you will be rewarded in heaven for such actions.
Perhaps some others have some more insight into this very hadith.
Again, please be reminded that I did not quote verbatim of this hadith, but relayed to you what I am remembering of it. May Allah forgive me for any mistakes that I have perhaps unintentionally presented.
Lulua.
servant_of_Allah
20-05-2002, 22:11
Question : As-Salaamu `Alaykum. Some Muslims tend to place green branches on a grave after the burial. Is this permissible?
Answer : Wa`alaykumu As-Salamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.
In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Almighty Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Dear questioner, we would like to express our thanks to you for your good question and we hope that our efforts be pure for Allah’s Sake.
As regards the question you posed, Sheikh `Atiyya Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, states the following:
Al-Bukhari narrates on the authority of Ibn `Abbaas, may Allah be pleased with him, that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, once passed by two graves and said, "These two persons are being tortured not for a major sin (to avoid). One of them never saved himself from being soiled with his urine, while the other used to go about with calumnies (to make enmity between friends)." The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, then took a green leaf of a date-palm tree, split it into (pieces) and fixed one on each grave. They said, "O Allah's Apostle! Why have you done so?" He replied, "I hope that their punishment might be lessened till these (the pieces of the leaf) become dry."
In his book "Sharh Sunan Abu Dawud" (vol. 1, page 42), Al-Khattabi maintains that no one, save the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, is given the privilege to place a palm leaf on the grave as a means of intercession to lessen the torture inflicted on the deceased. At-Tartushi, one of Shafi`e scholars, makes it clear that only the Prophet's blessed hand could do such an act, and it is not for Muslims in general.
However, Al-Khattabi maintains that the lessening in torture was due to the Prophet's invocation on behalf of the deceased, and that it has nothing to do with dry or soft leaves.
Moreover, Al-Qadi `Iyaad also supports the aforementioned view and states that: "Putting those date-palm leaves on the grave rests on knowing the condition of the deceased buried therein, and this is part of the Unseen, not revealed to anyone. The Prophet's remarks: "Now they are being tortured," indicates that he knew their condition and this is unique to being a Prophet. Besides, such a matter was not common among the Companions indicating that they adopted it as a permissible action.
On the other hand, some scholars maintain that such action is permissible for all. This is based on their assumption that there is no evidence indicating that this matter is part of the Prophet's prerogatives. There is also no evidence showing that the Prophet's Companions were against the action of Ibn Al-Khaseeb Al-Aslami, who ordered his family upon his death to put two date-palm leaves on his grave.
In short, this is a debatable issue. But, I think that it is permissible as long as one has a strong belief that only Almighty Allah has the power of benefiting or inflicting harm upon one, and as long as what we do is just a means of seeking Allah's mercy and forgiveness for the deceased. There is no need to consider it unlawful.
Allah Almighty knows best.
Taken from http://www.islamonline.net/fatwaapplication/english/browse.asp
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-05-02 AT 04:11 AM (GMT)]Hi Lulua,
If this hadith is not an example of taking one's sins upon oneself, what is? What is the accepted meaning for this phrase? I've taken it to mean the same as taking anything upon oneself. For example, if I say, I'll take it upon myself to take out the trash, the responsibility to take out the trash is on me and I have to deal with it. Thus, taking another's sin is like taking its responsibility and having to deal with it yourself. Like you said, it's like taking one's burden. But, that was only an assumption. Perhaps the ayah means something different by it?
If it does mean this, taking responsibility, then it still seems Muhammad was taking this man's responsibility.
I understand you interpret the leaves as showing the Prophet's hope to lessen their punishment, and I agree that far. However, Muhammad also took his hope into a physical act. So he was performing this physical act to lessen the man's punishment, right? Isn't a physical act a burden? If not, what is a burden?
JBJ
Hi, JBJ.
Actually, the hadith in question is only an example of the high compassion that prophet Mohammed(SAAW) had for his fellow humans-muslims and non-muslims alike. For as I am acquainted with the hadith, there were two ppl being tortured in the grave, and that one had been a muslim, and the other was not. And, in his appeal to Allah to relieve their misery of the present torture that they were going through in that state in the grave, he made no preference of the muslim over the non-muslim. His appeal for relieving their torture was equal for the two concerned.
As well, we learn through the example set forth in this hadith, that although the prophet(SAAW) did physically tear the leaf into two halves (as you have pointed out), that it is in no way his own taking physically on their burdens. It was only a metamorphical example of the time period concerned of the relief of their torture. How long would it take for those portions of the leaf to dry? 24 hours? Slightly more or slightly less? Not very long indeed compared with their lives on this earth preceding their deaths, and certainly not very long in comparison to the length of time that they shall wait till the judgement day, and even less in time in comparison to the eternity of the Hereafter.
No, JBJ-I do not see it as an example of Mohammed(SAAW) taking on the burdens of others-and if you do see it that way, then you are drastically distorting what is depicted. For you are seeming to interpret into this example of the hadith a current-day-Christian approach to salvation and forgiveness.
As for Islamic teachings, nothing could be further from the truth.
It is quite evident from all Islamic literature-the Quran, Hadith, as well as all other Islamic literature combined, that no one can take on the burdens of others. But to pray for the deceased, and ask Allah that they be forgiven or admitted to paradise, or to pray for the alleviation of their torments, that is something else entirely. It is a show of compassion for the deceased soul, as well as a show of sincerity in humbling one's self to the Creator and the need for ourselves to turn to Him in repentance and in asking.
'On no soul doth Allah Place a burden greater than it can bear. It gets every good that it earns, and it suffers every ill that it earns. (Pray:) "Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error; our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us; Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith."' s. 2, v. 286.
I hope that you can realize the truth to this verse, as it applies to your argument against this hadith, JBJ.
No one carries the burdens of others-regardless if they wish to or not. Each soul is completely responsible for it's own activities in this life. And each one is individually answerable for all things.
But to pray for someone's forgiveness or alleviation from grief and torment is something else entirely, and it is in itself an act of worship to the Almighty, by the mere fact of realizing and exemplifying that belief by praying to Him for their forgiveness.
Lulua.
This cannot be equaled with idolatry.
In Islam you pray to God and you can ask Him "whatever" you want (1 to 1 relations r alllowed and 1 to many not) if and only if you dont direct your prayers to someone else and ask that person whether he will ask God for forgiveness etc.
There is nothing wrong with this way of praying.
One note:
The hadith you took, there you read that the prophet HOPES that it will help. He doesn't know it certain !
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Elegy of a muslim:
When I ask Allah: "O Allah give me power" then He gives me troubles and that makes me strong.
When I ask Allah: "O Allah give me wealth" then He gives me knowdledge so I can use it.
When I ask Allah: "O Allah give me courage" then He gives a dangerous situation.
When I ask Allah: "O Allah give me love" then He gives me people who have problems so that I can help them.
When I ask Allah: "O Allah give me aid" then He gives me a "chance".
I never get what I ask.
I get what I need.
Hi Lulua,
Thanks for responding. I do understand now.
JBJ
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