help!_hadith_beard

[seekeroftruth]

Salam to all, just wanted to say, can someone help me explain two things;

1) this hadith of the blessed prophet. Basically i know what it means, but i would not mind what others here and if you have commentary at your homes (still to get some) of hadiths say what this hadith means. Here goes;

" a man slips more with his tongue then his feet"

Thankyou in advance.

2) Secondly, i would not mind if any brother or sister here would find me an article or write a small article explaining the aspect of the beard to an non-muslim (my ones still growing, mashallah!!) because it can be explained to muslims, but some non muslim do not understand this imporatant aspect of islam (i.e. the beard) so please help me out here.

Thankyou in advance.

Please do help me!! a fellow brother in islam!!

Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ

[Netcurtains]

Hi,
you don't have to be a muslim to understand this concept:
"a man slips more with his tongue then his feet". Most
men I know often say something they later regret. If you
want a sensible conversation you have to talk to a woman.
I think this is a self evident truth. Men are rude, arrogant,
hasty, aggresive and quick tempered. The christian bible
likens a church to a woman. It appeals to the feminine side
of all our natures. I guess it means get in touch with your feminine side?
Not sure about beards - its not a roman concept but greek and other orthadox clergy have beards and children. Papadopoulos is about the most common name in Greece and it means "son of a preist" -lol.
Netty.

[seekeroftruth]

>Hi,
>you don't have to be a
>muslim to understand this concept:

Could be? , that is why islam says it is a universal religion or way of life.

>"a man slips more with his
>tongue then his feet". Most
>
>men I know often say something
>they later regret. If you

Women say nothing? yet the gossip section in the shops, mags, the net are filled with women..did you know that? men also do that!!

>want a sensible conversation you have
>to talk to a woman.

Got most of it...but why women? i dont get this!! Whats wrong with men? (im one)!!

>I think this is a self
>evident truth.

Yes, the hadith is self evident!! but the next part is very funny!

>Men are rude,
>arrogant,
>hasty, aggresive and quick tempered.

How many men have you met? Go around the world and see for yourself. You cannot use a computer without a keyboard, you need the monitor and the keyboard, so men and women need each other.

>The
>christian bible
>likens a church to a woman.
>It appeals to the feminine
>side
>of all our natures. I guess
>it means get in touch
>with your feminine side?

Have i got a feminie side, i dont know that too.! Do i wear lipstick or what? The bible likes the church to be a women? wow, first time i have heard of that.

>Not sure about beards - its
>not a roman concept but
>greek and other orthadox clergy
>have beards and children. Papadopoulos
>is about the most common
>name in Greece and it
>means "son of a preist"

This question was not directed to you, so thankyou for trying, but it did not help.


This post above by myself was aimed at our muslim members. Thankyou for sharing your knowledge, but i would hope others here would help me.

by the way, you are a women? right? but remember both men and women have good points and bad points. The key to life is control.

sadiQ ( quite interesting comments made by you Netty!)


>-lol.
>Netty.


Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ

[Netcurtains]

LAST EDITED ON 30-01-02 AT 01:34 PM (GMT)[p]Nope I'm an agressive male. lol.
The christian church is sybolically a woman?
Yes that is a very old concept. The early catholics
related much of the "woman" in the bible to
being Mary. The protestants came along and said "no no
- its obvious, the woman is the whole church".
A couple of centuries later the catholics said "oh,
I get it now - yes I see".

I am not knocking the koran as of course the koran
(so i have been lead to believe by moslims) says you
should study the Torah and Gospel as well as the koran
to be a good Muslim.

Ephesians Ch5.vv22-30 might clarify somewhat.

In the Torah in Genesis god made the Land first, then
the plants, then the animals and then man and then woman.
If the order has any meaning then women are the pinicle
of gods "evolutionary" process. The meek shall inherit
the earth.

This is the amazing thing - for a moment in time the whole
christian church was 100% FEMALE. You don't believe me?
Well read it in black and white:

Luke Ch24 v10 "It was Mary Magdalene, Joanna, Mary the mother
of James, and the other women with them, who told the apostles that Jesus had risen from the dead".

Weird but true. My faith is built on word of women not men.

Netty

[seekeroftruth]

salam to all

Anyone? what is this?

PLease, someone (i.e. muslim) help me out here, a simple post with two simple questions, where is my DOC? Dr Qaisar or my dear sister in islam Lulua, anyone?

Thankyou in advance (if anyone replies).

Just wanted to discuss the issue of the hadith and the beard.

sadiQ! Still waiting!!



Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ

[Dr Qaisar]

As-salaamu-alaikum, Bro.Sadiq

I am sorry this time I may not be of much help (anyway, I think you may know the reason of my absence here!). Well, as regards to the beard, all I can add is that keeping a beard is a an outward sign of being a muslim, which is also prevalent among the orthodox Jews before us!! Also it is part of the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW). More next time, Insha-Allah.


Wa-salaam,
Dr.Qaisar

[sahi_muslim]

Assalaamoalaikum muslims
THE SHAR'EE LENGTH OF THE BEARD

Many Muslims have queried regarding this point. 1 have also found that people prefer keeping a beard in imitation of what's in vogue rather than that prescribed by Nabi (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). A Compilation of this nature has become important because the impact of the western way of life seems to be luring unwary Muslims into such a craze that the importance of the beard itself is being doubted and scoffed at. Since many articles have been printed regarding the importance of the beard itself, this deals with the importance of the length of the beard. To those who feel the issue is trivial to worry about, may ALLAH guide him. BUT to those who genuinely wish to learn and practice what is right-here is sufficient proofs from the Quran, Ahadith and learned scholars.

"For Muslim males to grow a beard is wajib (compulsory), and to let it grow a fist length is wajib, without any Shari reason to cut or shave is haraarn (totally prohibited), he who does so is a faasiq (sinner), to shorten it less than a fist length is makhruh tahrimi (near haraam), to repeatedly (shorten) it is sinning and upon these laws there is IJMA, (consensus of opinion)" - Dari Aur Am- biyya Ki Sunnate-Mufti Saeed Palanpuri.

CONCERNING ADHERENCE TO THE SUNNAT ALLAH SAYS:

"O you who believe, obey ALLAH and the RASUL and those in authority from among you" (4;59);
"O you who believe, respond to ALLAH and his RASUL when he calls you to that which gives you LIFE" (8;24);
"O you who believe, obey ALLAH and his RASUL and TURN NOT AWAY (from) when you hear (him speak)" (8;20);
"Whoever obeys the RASUL, he indeed obeys ALLAH" (4;80);
"And whatever the RASUL GIVES you, ACCEPT IT and whatever he FORBIDS you, ABSTAIN (from it)" (59;7);
"Certainly you have in the RASUL of ALLAH a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for him who hopes in ALLAH and in the last day and remembers ALLAH much" (33;2l);
"Nor does he say of his own desires, it is nought but revelation that is revealed" (53;3/4).
Importance of the Beard in Rasulullah (s.a.w) words:

Rasululah (S.A.W) says "Trim closely the moustache, and let the beard flow (grow)". Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A) in Muslim, hadith no 498.
Rasululah (S.A.W) ordered us to trim the moustache closely and spare the beard" says Ibn Umar in Muslim hadith no. 449.
Rasululah (S.A.W) said 'Act against (contrary) to the polytheists, trim closely the moustache and grow the beard Reported by Ibn Umar (R.A) in Muslim hadith no. 500.
Rasululah (.S.A.W) "Trim closely the moustache and grow the beard". Reported by Abu-Hurairah (RA) in Muslim hadith no. 501.
Rasululah (S.A.W) said 'I have no connection with one who shaves, shouts and tears his clothing e.g. in grief or affication". Reported by Abu Darda (RA) in Bukhari and Muslim.
Rasululah (S.A.W) said "Any one who shaves has no claim to the mercy of ALLAH' Reported by Ibn Abbas (R.A) in Tibrabi.
Hazart Abdullah Ibn Umar (R.A) used to cut that portion (which exceeds the grip of the hand) of beard. (Tirmizi).
The teaching of Hazart Ammar Bin Yaasir, Abdullah Ibn Umar, Sayyindina Umar, Abu Hurairah and Jaabir (R.A), indicates that ALL used to keep beard that was one fist in length or more. Hazart Jaabir (R.A) had said; "We used to grow long beards and only during Hajj and Umrah did we trim them to required length".
Hazart Abdullah Ibn Urnar (R.A) relates that; "He who imitates the kuffar (non-believers) and dies in that state he will be raised up with them on the Day of Qiyarnat (Judgement)."

It is reported in the Tabrani Vol 3 Page 90/91 that Kaiser, the King of Persia, after having read the letter sent by the RASUL (S.A.W) of ALLAH inviting him to accept the faith of Islaam, ordered his sub-ordinate Bayon (Badhun), the governor of Yemen, to send two persons to bring the RASUL of Islaam before him. Bayan accordingly sent two messengers who according to the fashion of those days were clean shaven and having long moustaches. When they appeared on the scene toward the RASUL (S.A.W) of ALLAH, he very much disliked the unnatural appearances of those persons and said; "Woe to you, Woe to you. Who ordered you to adopt such appearances? They said; "Our lord Kaiser". The RASUL (S.A.W) of ALLAH then told them "My Rabb COMMANDED me to lenghten my beard and clip my moustaches".
The Beard According To The Great Imams of Jurisprudence

HANAFIES
The Hanifies say "To shorten the beard less than a FIST LENGTH is HARAAM and on this is IJMA`A (consensus of opinion)".

Imam Muharnmed (RA) writes in his book "Kitabul Aathaar" where he relates from Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) who relates from Hazart Haytham (ra) who relates from Ibn Umar (ra) that he (Ibn Umar) used to hold his beard in his hand and cut off which was longer. Imam Muham- med (ra) says that this is what we follow and this was the decision of Imam Abu Hanifa (ra).

SHAFIES
Imam Shafi (ra) in his Kitabul Umm states, "To shave the beard is HARAAM". (Shari Minfiaj dar Shara Fasl Aqueeqa).

MALIKIES
Sheikh Ahmad Nafarawi Maliki in the commentary of Imam Abu Zayed's booklet states, "to shave the beard is without doubt haraam according to all Imarns", it is also mentioned in 'Tamheed' which is a commentary of "Muatta" (Sunnan Imam Malik (RA)) that to shave the beard is HARAAM and among males the only ones to resort to this (practice) are the HERMAPHRODITES.

HANBALIES
The Hanbalies in their famous Al-KhanWa Hambli Fatawa Kitab state that "to grow the beard is essential and to shave it is HARAAW. Also in the Hambali Mathab books "Sharahul Muntaha' and "Shari Manzoomatul Aadaab", it is stated "The most accepted view is that it is HARAAM (prohibited to shave the beard)".

The Beard According to the Scholars of Islam

Dure-Makhtar states "Beard length is ONE FIST".
Commentator of Mishkãt Hadhrath Muhaddith Abdul Haq Dehlevi (RA) says; "to keep the beard ONE FIST length is WAA.1113 (compulsory).
Ibn Jazm Zahari writes, "To clip the moustache and to let the beard flow (grow) is FARZ (obligatory) - Al Mahly Vol 2 Page 320. quotes the above hadith (no. 500) as support.
The commentator of Mishkãt, Shaykh Abdul Haq Muhaddith of Delhi says; "It is incumbent (wajib) to wear (a beard) to a fist's length and it is called approved (masnun) because it s a religious custom, it is sunnat, that is, the practise of all Prophets and is proven from the Rasul of Allah (S.A.W)'s practise" (Ashiat ul Larnaat Vol. 1 page 288).
"To shave off the beard is unlawful (haraam) and one who shaves his beard is legally speaking an unrighteous fellow (fasiq); hence, it is NOT PERMISSIBLE to appoint such a man as an Imam. To say Taraweeh behind such a Imarn is MAKRUH-E-TAHRIMI (near prohibition)". (Shami-Vol 1. page 523).
The Durre-Mukhtar states; "No one has called it permissible to trim it (the beard) less than FIST-LENGTH as is being done by some westernised Muslims and hermaphrodites" (Vol. 2 Page 155).
The Durre-Mukhtar states; "It is forbidden (haraam) for a man to cut off another's beard" (Vol. 5. page 359).
"To shave off the beard and to trim it more than the legal length is impermissible and forbidden (haraam). One who does so is a fasiq and his evidence is rejectable, his Imamate is near prohibited" (Fatawa Rahimiyah, Vol. 2, page 195).
"The beard in its time (ie. when it begins to grow) is the cause of handsomeness and adornment, which is completely lost on shaving it' (Hedaya Vol. 4, page 571).
"To wear the beard upto one fist in length is prescribed but much more than that is contrary to the practise of the Rasul of Allah (S.A.W)" (AI-Ikhtiyar, Vol 4, page 167).
Moulana Husain Ahmad Madani (RA) in his book, "The Philosophy of the Beard", writes: "Rasulluah (S.A.W) has COMMANDED the Sahaba (RA) and the Ummah to lengthen their beards and make this a symbol and uniform of a believer. It is therefore not permissible to shave, nor to shorten nor to keep a small (goatee) beard".
Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi (RA), an authority on Islam writes, "It is an unanimous verdict for the Ummah that to shorten the beard less than a grip of the hand is forbidden".
Moulana Thanaullah (RA) of Panipat says, "To clip the beard more than a FIST'S LENGTH is unlawful (haraam). (Mala buda Minho, page 130).
CONCLUSION
Thus a Muslim who shaves or shortens his beard is like a hermophrodite, his Imamate is near prohibition, his evidence is not valid, he will not have the right to vote or being voted for. Shaving and shortening the beard is the action of the non-believers. Imam Ghazzali (RA) says, "know that the key to total bliss (saadah) lies in following the Sunnah and in emulating the life of Rasulullah (S.A.W) in ALL that issues from him, and in ALL his doings even if it concerns the manner of his eating, rising, sleeping, and speaking. I do say this in relation to rituals in worship ONLY because there is no way neglecting the Sunnah reported of him in such matters - but what I say INCLUDES EVERY ASPECT of his daily life". (Kitab al Arbain Addin, Cairo 1344, page 89). Allah Taala told Nabi (S.A.W) to say, "Say IF you love Allah, follow me, Allah will love you" (3-31).

The daily recitation of a band of angels of ALLAH is "HOLY is the Being who adorned men with beard and women with pigtails and braids" (Takmela e Bahr al Raiq Xol 3 page 33)

ALLAH TAALA says ---And when true believers are called to ALLAH and His RASUL (S.A.W) (to accept and practice the law and commands of ALLAH and His RASUL) (S.A.W) that he may pass judgement upon them, their ONLY reply is "We hear and obey" Such men shall surely prosper' (24/51).

THE CALL IS TO GROW A FIST LENGTH BEARD, LET US HEAR AND OBEY TO PROSPER.

'The Shari Length of the Beard' by Mufti Afzal Elias, P.O. Box 5689, Benoni South 1502

http://www.jamiat.org.za/isinfo/s_beard.html

[seekeroftruth]

Salam brother, Yes, the article above is one of the well known article on the net, for it contains very true evidence to show THE beard is wajib, it is one my fav too.

The question which i raised was more about telling the 'non-muslims' of the world about the concept of the beard.

Thankyou for the article, that should enlighten us all, but i was looking for an article that should explain it to the non-muslim.

sadiQ Take care!!


Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ

[Netcurtains]

LAST EDITED ON 07-02-02 AT 09:43 PM (GMT)[p]lol - so lets get this straight.
The Muslim that goes to prison for his
non-violent anti-war views - Muhammed Ali
doesn't have a beard. And you say he is
wrong?

Come on guys, you're obviously
going way off beam here. Is this a wind up?

I sometimes think there are only about 5 muslims
who write here and they are all collage kids having
a laugh.

Is this beard thing for real or is it a joke?

[sahi_muslim]

Assalaamoalaikum

Nobody knows whats in the heart of another man but Allah commanded Muslims to follow Hadhrat Muhammed(PBUH) The status of a muslim depends on his own taqwa
Saying that a man who doesn't have a beard is a non muslim is wrong but he will be a fasiq (sinner) not a non muslim
It is an obligation on muslims to obey Allah and do what he commands Shaving the beard involves disobeying the order of the Prophet (s.a.w) who commanded us to grow our beards, as he (s.a.w) said "contradict the non-believers, grow the beards and cut the moustaches" [Bukhari and Muslim]. Ibn Jarir have also narrated to the story of the two messengers of Kisra (the Persian king) to the Prophet, who entered to where the Prophet (s.a.w) was, and they had shaved their beards and grown their moustaches, the Prophet (s.a.w) hated to even look at them and told them: "Woe to you! Who ordered you to do that?" They replied: "Our lord (i.e. Kisra) ordered us". The Prophet then said: "But my Lord ordered me to grow my beard and clip my moustache".
W'salaam

[seekeroftruth]

>LAST EDITED ON 07-02-02
>AT 09:43*PM (GMT)
>
>lol - so lets get this
>straight.
>The Muslim that goes to prison
>for his
>non-violent anti-war views - Muhammed Ali
>
>doesn't have a beard. And you
>say he is
>wrong?

You 'have' to wear an uniform when going to school, not 'just' only attending the school, isnt that a certain rule in some schools, netty? you have to 'wear' it, if you dont, you cannot come. So islam is a religion, you either pratice it fully or you dont! simple. You dont believe in one part of the book and forget the other.

>Come on guys, you're obviously
>going way off beam here. Is
>this a wind up?

The hadiths are the words of the prophet, and you using such words are not helping here? if you have a question plz do ask, if not then reframe from making islam something that it isnt. We are here to say what islam is, you like it or not, i dont care, if you accept it, then i ll help you, if you dont, then its your problem, not mine.

>I sometimes think there are only
>about 5 muslims
>who write here and they are
>all collage kids having
>a laugh.

Really? then you are wrong! There are a number of members here and i dont know the age limit here.

>Is this beard thing for real
>or is it a joke?


joke? so the trinity thing is a joke? 3 finget make a big 1 finger? how do you feel if someone says that to you? not happy right? the beard is one aspect in islam that is dear to all, similar to the prayer, the prophet prayed a certain way, that is why we pray like that, the prophet and ther other prophets kept beards, then we will also follow. Muhammed being the best example to all, prayed, we also pray, he kept a beard, we also will keep a beard.

simple.


Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ

[sahi_muslim]

Assalamoalaikum

I read an article on http://islam-usa.com/r37.html
In this article the author writes
"The happiest incident connected with my beard happened when I was in a New York hotel. I ordered a plain omelet for breakfast. The American waitress, looked at me and said " You look like a Muslim, and I know this omelet is not plain. It has ham in it, so would you like to order something else?" I thanked her for saving me from eating pork and I thanked God for making me look like a Muslim."

P.S I am unaware of the imaan of the writer I got hold of the article that'w why i gave the address here if you find anything questionable email the writer of the article


W'salaam

[Netcurtains]

No offence meant.
I am an adult male from southern England.
I have met THOUSANDS of Muslims.
Only a tiny fraction have a beard.
I assumed it was CULTURAL rather then any
RELIGIOUS significance.

Netty

[Lulua]

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Greetings and good day to all.

Sorry, my dear brother Sadiq, for not having responded earlier...just that this particular forum had not had so much traffic in the past, I was not habitual in viewing this particular forum so often. Happy that it has picked up in traffic now. Alhamdulillah.

And, thankyou for raising this important question, on how to explain to non-muslims about the beard. As well, it is an excellent opportunity for netcurtains to learn a little more about Islam, as he has so eminently expressed that he supposed before that it was merely something of a cultural thing, and not really related to religion.

Although I am not familiar in particular with any article on the web which addresses this question in particular (there are many addressing muslims, but not in explanation to the non-muslims)...I will try my best to explain, inshaAllah. And it does not matter really that I am not a man myself. For insight, understanding, and knowledge, as well as faith and taqwa are things not limited to man nor to women, but are particular to the individual regardless of race or sex or nationality. This is an evident aspect of Islam. The unity of the religion, as well as the single unity of God.

We have in the Quran the words of God, as understood by muslims. I have only recently posted on this forum a link for the miracles of the Quran, and I ask all to view that link, muslims and non-muslims alike. It will show to you the many miracles of the Quran, expressing and expanding on the understanding that the Quran is indeed a divine revelation.

From this Quran, we find guidance for our daily lives. It is the nourishment that our souls are in need of, in order to develop and work towards the end goal of reaching peace and happiness in the hereafter. It is through this very guidance that we receive the strong admonition and advice to follow that which the prophet of Islam (SAAW) gives to us, or orders us, and to keep away from that which he warns us against.

It is in the recordings of the Hadith, or the Sunnah, that we find the sayings, daily practices, and the very life-style of the prophet(SAAW), in other words, the demonstration of the teachings of the Quran eminated into daily life and practice by the 'best of exemplers' (as he, Mohammed, SAAW, is described in the Quran).

We find from this hadith, as 'sahi muslim' has already pointed out, the prophet's(SAAW) explicit instruction to 'cut or trim the mustaches and let the beard grow', as well as the demostration by him himself(SAAW) and his companions in living out his instruction by allowing their own beards to grow. It is in the practice of keeping in line with such instruction as well as following the physical example, that all muslims of all nations and ages to follow do actually follow such an example and instruction.

So, you can see, that this is in fact a part of religion...to grow the beard, and not merely out of customary tradition of generations of arabs, but rather the tradition of religiously following the instructions and demonstration set for us by our 'excellent exempler', prophet Mohammed (SAAW).

I am particularly endeared to the living example of the afore quoted experience by the muslim man, presented by 'sahi muslim', who expressed the waitresses' desire to help this muslim man observe his religious requirements of not intaking pork. This waitress, a non-muslim most likely herself, has no reason whatsoever to warn him of such, but acted out of mere kindness and concern for her fellow man's religious adherance. And, in her observance, noticed the outward appearance of a possible muslim. Much similar to the hijab, or the scarves that muslim women wear to cover their heads, hair, and neck areas.

Sure, the outward appearance of a muslim does not necessarily represent nor cover up that which is in the heart. It is surely what is in the heart that counts. But surely a true muslim will not be ashamed whatsoever to demonstrate to the world outwardly that he/she is a muslim, by either observing the rules of wearing hijab or keeping a beard. It is a simple outward sign of a muslim. It is no increase to that which is contained in the heart. But merely an outward signal, as well as it is a method in following the sunnah (tradition) example of our beloved prophet(SAAW), as we are guided to do so from the Quran.

I hope and pray that this helps to enlighten some on this topic, inshaAllah. If there are still some questions, please do ask. I am sure that all muslims present and visiting will do their best to shed their own enlightenment on this as well as other topics.

Lulua.

P.S. For netcurtains...for an adult, you sure do have some immature mannerisms about you. There are surely many young members of this discussion board, but there are as well many adult members as well. Myself one. And, I must say...that to have you in representation of the adult population is many times a disgrace to the term adult. Please do try to conduct yourself in better adult-mannerisms. You will find that when you reach out to others in common-sense terms, and non-accusatory, and merely searching for knowledge or insight, that you will be received in much better respect.