Aljamaat

[Muslim (Guest)]

The great Apostle of Allah ( pbuh ), while fore telling the times of
good and evil coming in future , said:" (a time will come when some)
people will invite (towards the wrong path) as if they are standing on
the door of hell and inviting (people) to enter it. They will throw
into it all such persons as whoever will accept their invitation
(that is , he who obeys them will certainly will go to hell ) "

Hadrat Hudhaifa ( r.a.t.h ) said: " O apostle of Allah will you let
me know something about their attributes and symbols?"

Prophet Muhammad said: " They will be from amongst our nation and will
speak in our language "

Hadrat Hudhaifa ( r.a.t.h) said: " what should I do , if I survive
up to that moment ? what is your order for me (in this regard) ".

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said: " stick to
Jamaat-ul-Muslimeen and it's Imam (Leader). "

Hadrat Hudhaifa ( r.a.t.h): " what if there is neither Jamaat nor
their Imam ? (what should I do then ) "

Prophet Muhammad replied: " Keep yourself away from all sects, even if
you have to live upon roots of trees and you shall have to remain in
this state till your death reached you "
[Saeeh Buhkari (kitab ul fiten) & Saeeh Muslim (kitab ul emarate) ]



www.aljamaat.org

[Luque (Guest)]

Sounds like the story of Hercules. Whatever.

Luque
(Islamic Logicist)

[Tayeb]

Assalamu-alaikum:

Brother Luque stop being so arrogant and humble yourself. Either you stop being desrespectful towards Islam and in that way the Holy Qur'an and Hadith or your messages will be forthwith removed. Sr Om Mohammed the Moderator of this Forum will know how to deal with you.

Wa-salaam,
Tayeb
Admin of IWC

[Luque (Guest)]

Assalamulaikum brother Tayeb.

Is it wrong having different views? When the description of God was such, why can't I say what I should say? I believe God is not the way he is desribed by many of you here. This is opinion. Why do you accuse me of being desrespectful?

I understand even my password doesn't work anymore. In fact sometime ago. Is this what you call opened discussion?

Since 1 out of 73 will go to heaven, I want to remain odd.

Luque
(Islamic Logicist)

[Tayeb]

Assalamu-alaikum:

Brother Luque haven't you been presumptious or even arrogant so many times as can be witnessed by your postings? These wouldn't be the reasons for somebody to be banned from IWC. Our rules are simple. You can read them under Help link. If you search your consciousness, you'll understand why your membership has been disactivated. Offense on others and disrespect to the Holy Qur'an, Hadith and Allah aren't allowed here. This isn't a simple discussion board where you can write whatever you like, hence we require respect to others and Islam. Our aim is to promote and help in understanding Islam.

Wa-salaam,
Tayeb
Admin

[Luque (Guest)]

Assalamualikum Bro. Tayeb.

Oh I see. What about the disrespectful of faith from few brothers towards me. I have my way of understanding about Islam, can that be respected too.

You guys always humiliate Allah as forcing, angry, arrogant, intolerance and unjust. These are what I am against. I always believe Allah is loving to all mankind no matter from whichever womb anyone came from. When other people have different faith and way of believing anything, these should be respected. This is what Allah wants.

Here clearly shown that according to your policy about the site, you guys should be banned from your own site. But that's definately impossible. So please communicate with respect. Respect other people's faith and my faith.

Luque
(Islamic Logicist)

[Lulua]

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Good day to all.

Luque...and terming or responding about recorded hadith...the established sayings of prophet Mohammed(saaw) as being parallel to Hercules is not paramount to disrespect...? Neither to Islam in general, nor to the prophet(SAAW) in particular?

And, as well...for someone who so often rejects the establishment of hadiths, and what they have to reveal, yet you continue to contradict yourself in your own claims...selecting to choose acceptance of only that which suits you only when it suits you. Like your remark in choosing to be of the odd selection of the 73rd sect. Can you be so sure that it is that sect which is in fact the 'saved' or 'right' sect?

Also, in response to something you have mentioned in another thread, and something which is concurrent in many of your posts...the Quran is not 'within persons'...it is a guidance for mankind...written and recorded for all to resort to, to find comfort, to find directions, to find guidance. It is not 'within' us...that is something of copying the Christian's concept of God-incarnate, only this time interpreting it to being the message, and not God himself.

The Quran is explicit in defining itself as such a guidance, throughout the entirety of it. It is clear. It is a criterion. It is guidance sure. Does that need further interpretation? To what are you going to warp such definitions into being?

As for God, Allah, or whatever name a person wishes to refer to Him by...He is also described throughout the Quran...and those definitions are divine definitions given to us by Him, as a form of guidance as well...so that we may become familiar with Him, what He is, what He expects and desires of us, and what is required of us to attain His pleasure and approval, and therefore salvation.

Simple...a set of guidelines to form your life by...follow it or not...your choice. If you follow such guidelines, then you encrue God's pleasure and therefore redemption through His mercy which has been attained through following His divine guidelines.

And if you choose not to accept, or to accept a part and not the rest, then you still have encrued His displeasure upon you for that choice that you have made. A simple, logical case of causes and consequences. Actions and re-actions. Unless one repents for having sinned by going against God's simple and logical and clear directives, then he has encrued God's anger upon himself, and must live with the final consequences. One is given chance after chance after chance to repent, asking for forgiveness...something which takes an effort to humble ones' self to first admit the mistake made, and then to resolve not to repeat. But if one remains arrogant, and refuses to humble to his Maker, then the consequences are also clearly stated in the Quran.

That is what the Quran is...a guidance, a criterion, a directive, a set of laws and guidance for life for mankind. Reminders of what one should and should not do, reminders of how to find the way to pleasing God, and reminders of what God will do in this or that instance according to one's actions or non-actions.

Logical, really. Thought you were a logicist, Luque.

Seems to me that you are rather superficial in trying to find your own 'interpretations'. The Quran and Islam is not airy like that...it is clear-cut, simple, and really down-to-earth. It only takes a bit of an effort to read and search and then implement. That is what the Quran is for, for using as such a guidance in order to implement into daily life. That is what the prophet Mohammed(SAAW) did...and that is what we should all attempt to do ourselves.

Lulua.

[Luque (Guest)]

>Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.
>
>Good day to all.

Sister Lulua, Good day to you too.

>
>Can you be so
>sure that it is that
>sect which is in fact
>the 'saved' or 'right' sect?

Can you be so sure it is not?


>Also, in response to something you
>have mentioned in another thread,
>and something which is concurrent
>in many of your posts...the
>Quran is not 'within persons'...it
>is a guidance for mankind...

See, what you understand and what I understand is different. Who is right and who is wrong? To us or to God? Logically, you can ask yourself. Do you have the humane feeling like other human? Do you feel the fairness should be like what others feel?. Do you feel loves like what others feel too? Is your rational thoughts like others rational thoughts too?

The moment you blocked your mind due to your obsession of so called Qur'an and Hadith, that's the moment you fail to think. That's the moment you are no longer a khalifa as human who have free wills to choose. Universe don't choose like you call it "obey". Animals don't choose, they obey the process of nature. That's why they do not qualify as "khalifa".


>The Quran is explicit in defining
>itself as such a guidance,
>throughout the entirety of it.
>It is clear.

It is clear for those who do not think. The clear of nothing. It is like the light is too bright. Too clear until you cannot see anything. Qur'an is not meant that way.


>what
>He is, what He expects
>and desires of us, and
>what is required of us
>to attain His pleasure and
>approval, and therefore salvation.

He is almighty. Why does he needs us for anything? You are saying God is arrogant?

>Simple...a set of guidelines to form
>your life by...follow it or
>not...your choice. If you follow
>such guidelines, then you encrue
>God's pleasure and therefore redemption
>through His mercy which has
>been attained through following His
>divine guidelines.

Is this as simple as following what Pharoah wanted?. Moses fought against it. God is not like that. How could you believe God is like Pharoah?

>And if you choose not to
>accept, or to accept a
>part and not the rest,
>then you still have encrued
>His displeasure upon you for
>that choice that you have
>made. A simple, logical case
>of causes and consequences. Actions
>and re-actions.

True. This is logic. I would rather go against the demand and bear the consequences like consequences bear by Moses against Pharoah.

>Unless one repents
>for having sinned by going
>against God's simple and logical
>and clear directives, then he
>has encrued God's anger upon
>himself, and must live with
>the final consequences. One is
>given chance after chance after
>chance to repent, asking for
>forgiveness...something which takes an effort
>to humble ones' self to
>first admit the mistake made,
>and then to resolve not
>to repeat. But if one
>remains arrogant, and refuses to
>humble to his Maker, then
>the consequences are also clearly
>stated in the Quran.

I wouldn't bow to any arrogant being including God. Because I believe God is never this arrogant. I would fight any arrogant being. At least I die I will be happy for fighting against arrogant being.

>That is what the Quran is...a
>guidance, a criterion, a directive,
>a set of laws and
>guidance for life for mankind.

I believe the same way. Only many irresponsible people distorted the true definations and meaning in Qur'an and Hadith.

>Reminders of what one should
>and should not do, reminders
>of how to find the
>way to pleasing God,

What do you mean to please God? See you still claim God needs us to please him. That's Pharoah type of God. Not the way I believe a God is.


>Logical, really. Thought you were a
>logicist, Luque.

You still don't understand the meaning of "logic". At least the way I understand it. Did you read what I mean "logic" in the other post to you? About repetitious and/or continous existence of events or incidents. Like the nature. The characteristics of fire. Before, now and forever? I will explain to you about logic if you need it. The combination of causes elements lead to the existence of the consequences. The existing of flamable material, heat and oxygen at one time, will lead to the existing of fire. Any absence of any elements, will not produce the fire. This is the nature the way God made it.

You can pray, ask, worship or begging from God to change the formulas of causes and consequences, God will never do that. Because it will be against its will.

If you were to tell me the story of Abraham where the fire was cold. This is not logic because the event is not repetitous or continuous. As the fiction or superstitious, it is okey. So what do you learn from the story, nothing. May be the most to claim God is almighty. God is still almighty even the fire is hot. So still what do we learn? Nothing. Why Qur'an want to teach us to learn nothing?


>Seems to me that you are
>rather superficial in trying to
>find your own 'interpretations'.

Oh definately to you. It is like Pagans arab never acknowledged prophet Muhammad as brought new, modern, make sense teaching since they were so obssesed with their existing herediatary religion. Muhammad (SAW) faced that consequences too.

>The
>Quran and Islam is not
>airy like that...it is clear-cut,
>simple, and really down-to-earth. It
>only takes a bit of
>an effort to read and
>search and then implement. That
>is what the Quran is
>for, for using as such
>a guidance in order to
>implement into daily life.

I agree 100% with you about this. How do you spend days of your life and how do I spend days of my life. I guess in 24 hours, not much different. Sleep, wakes up, bathing, brushing my teeth, contemplating or praying, working, playing games or get hook with computers, eating, later tired sleeping.

Even without reading Qur'an still can live everyday.

What else Qur'an wants us to do besides those I've mentioned?

Maybe the interaction among human not to hurt others feeling. Be fair and just when making decision. This needs respect.

But to have modern living, convenience, comfortable, technology, you wouldn't find it in the Qur'an. You can only find it in the nature. God doesn't give us the computer even we beg for it, but understanding the nature, the characteristic of electricity and electric pulse, semiconductor, silicon, transistors, make possible about the communication thru computers.

You can claim that knowledge given by God. So what? Believing in Israk and Mikraj will not make us able to travel, but understanding engine concept. Does Qur'an teaches us about building the engine? The nature teaches us.

If the formulas of Causes and Consequences keep on changing,"as God will, if God wants" do you think we can learn anything or use that knowledge for our convenience of life?

>That
>is what the prophet Mohammed(SAAW)
>did...and that is what we
>should all attempt to do
>ourselves.

Do you think so?. Prophet Muhammad (SAW) wouldn't replace superstition with superstition. I think Prophet Muhammad (SAW) himself was a logicist. All prophets were the logicist including Jesus. All great people were the logicist. Philosophers are the logicist. They all admire the existing of the nature and learn a lot from it.

The believers of the superstitious never consult the nature in their believes. Nature is logic. In Islam we have Qias. Form of explaining using the nature- experience or event.

If we have any unsolved questions, we will consult Guru (Ulamak)only if Guru is Guru- a person who really knows. Guru will use nature in his explanations. Today the Ulamak is no more a guru. Only a person who memorise words, not a person who think and understand the nature.

>
>Lulua.

Luque
(Islamic Logicist)

[intercultureproject]

Dear Members of this Forum,

I am a student of Munich University.Currently I am
making a project about women under Taliban for my
interculture study.So I need some viewpionts from the
Islamic world.I would be therefore very grateful if
you have time to help me with these following
questions(these are only used for academic study!!I
will keep it anonymous!!):

1. How often do you read and post the massages on this
forum?


2. Why do you use this forum?


3. Do you feel misunderstood by people from other
cultures? If yes, how?


4. How do you think about the war in Afghanistan?


5. What is your opinion about the women under Taliban?


6. What's your piont of view to the surrender of
Taliban?

7. Who do you think should govern this Country in
the future?

8. Would the situation of Afghan women be better
in the future?

Finally we would like you to provide some further
information about yourself.

9. What is your nationality?


1o. What is your primary language (i.e., the one you
speak most of the time)?


11. Where are you located?


12. What is your religion?


13. How old are you?


14. Are you male or female?


15. What is the highest level of education you have
completed?


16. What is your profession?


Thank you very much for completing the questionnaire!


Liebe
interculture_project0102@yahoo.de