Om_Mohammed
22-11-2000, 05:11
Assalaamu alaikum.
I wish to extend to brother Munir my appreciation ahead of time, for his offer of his time and effort with us at this forum.
Sometimes we get into rather heated arguments about the acceptability of this or that...each bringing proper evidence from the Quran and/or hadith. I shall try to fill you in a bit, brother Munir...in case that you have not yet been following the current discussions going on in the general forum.
The topic started out rather simple, but has developed into a question delving more deeply into the evidence available and reliable from the hadith, so I have suggested to all that this topic be continued here in this forum, with easy access to you, brother Munir, for more expertise on this matter.
The question began with mention of the celebration and activities related to that celebration of 'meelad an-nabi'..i.e., the birthday of the prophet. I will not go into detail of the past conversation...if you wish, please refer to the posts in the general forum. Some of us have come with the mention that this celebration is bidaah...and the argument has only developed from there...as to what is considered bidaah...to the question or mention of good bidaah, and otherwise classified bidaah.
What I have learned (and granted ... that could be wrong)...and my understanding from the hadith of the prophet concerning bidaah...is that the prophet hiimself did not classify bidaah into good, acceptable, bad, or otherwise. He only mentioned bidaah...and warned his followers of any bidaah in religion.
There has been mention of a hadith...in which Umar(ARA) made comment of his direction of praying taraweeh prayers in congregation...as a good bidaah. However, there is also the hadith from the prophet warning against all bidaah. There is also mention of another hadith, following that which is quoting Umar, as is follows:
Narrated Urwa that he was informed by Aisha(ARA): "Allah's Apostle (SAAW) went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Apostle(SAAW) came out and the people prayed behind him. On the fourth night the mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accomodate them, but the prophet (SAAW) came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited tashahhud, and (addressing the people) said, "Amma Ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me, but I was afraid lest the night prayer (qiyam) should be enjoined on you, and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle(SAAW) died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually)."
Is this not indication...in itself...that the taraweeh...although the prophet did not order it so...was firstly prayed in congregation by the prophet? He did not forbid his companions from praying with him, in fact, he continued, until he did not come out one night...only out of fear that it should become enjoined on them. My point is...that even though Umar...in reference to this prayer, in which he did commend the followers to pray in congregation...he called it a good bidaah...it is still something that the prophet did first...and therefore ... in doing so (i.e....praying the taraweeh in congegration)...we are actually following the example of the prophet... and not the bidaah allegedly created by Umar?
And...although these hadith's ... both of them...are listed under Bukhari...perhaps it is not truly so that Umar said that. We must also consider that...and I mean no disrespect to the memory of Umar...but during the prophet's (SAAW) life...he was known to correct his companions whenever they were wrong...in deeds or in words. Perhaps...even this mention of what Umar is recorded to have mentioned...in calling what he did as bidaah..and apparently pleased with himself, to the point of calling it a 'good bidaah'..he was wrong in saying so...for the prophet is recorded to have warned against all bidaah...not qualifying good bidaah from bad bidaah. So...perhaps even the mere mention of it was something wrong. My whole point in this wave of thought is...that even though Umar may have said something of this sort...are we to follow his suggestions and directions over that of the prophet? Or...are we not to follow the directions and suggestions of the prophet over that of any man...living or dead? I think when we study all concerned with this subject...that we will come to the conclusion...that what the prophet has said...and left for us as example...is that which we are to follow, over and above the directives of any of the companions.
Om Mohammed
I wish to extend to brother Munir my appreciation ahead of time, for his offer of his time and effort with us at this forum.
Sometimes we get into rather heated arguments about the acceptability of this or that...each bringing proper evidence from the Quran and/or hadith. I shall try to fill you in a bit, brother Munir...in case that you have not yet been following the current discussions going on in the general forum.
The topic started out rather simple, but has developed into a question delving more deeply into the evidence available and reliable from the hadith, so I have suggested to all that this topic be continued here in this forum, with easy access to you, brother Munir, for more expertise on this matter.
The question began with mention of the celebration and activities related to that celebration of 'meelad an-nabi'..i.e., the birthday of the prophet. I will not go into detail of the past conversation...if you wish, please refer to the posts in the general forum. Some of us have come with the mention that this celebration is bidaah...and the argument has only developed from there...as to what is considered bidaah...to the question or mention of good bidaah, and otherwise classified bidaah.
What I have learned (and granted ... that could be wrong)...and my understanding from the hadith of the prophet concerning bidaah...is that the prophet hiimself did not classify bidaah into good, acceptable, bad, or otherwise. He only mentioned bidaah...and warned his followers of any bidaah in religion.
There has been mention of a hadith...in which Umar(ARA) made comment of his direction of praying taraweeh prayers in congregation...as a good bidaah. However, there is also the hadith from the prophet warning against all bidaah. There is also mention of another hadith, following that which is quoting Umar, as is follows:
Narrated Urwa that he was informed by Aisha(ARA): "Allah's Apostle (SAAW) went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah's Apostle(SAAW) came out and the people prayed behind him. On the fourth night the mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accomodate them, but the prophet (SAAW) came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited tashahhud, and (addressing the people) said, "Amma Ba'du, your presence was not hidden from me, but I was afraid lest the night prayer (qiyam) should be enjoined on you, and you might not be able to carry it on." So, Allah's Apostle(SAAW) died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually)."
Is this not indication...in itself...that the taraweeh...although the prophet did not order it so...was firstly prayed in congregation by the prophet? He did not forbid his companions from praying with him, in fact, he continued, until he did not come out one night...only out of fear that it should become enjoined on them. My point is...that even though Umar...in reference to this prayer, in which he did commend the followers to pray in congregation...he called it a good bidaah...it is still something that the prophet did first...and therefore ... in doing so (i.e....praying the taraweeh in congegration)...we are actually following the example of the prophet... and not the bidaah allegedly created by Umar?
And...although these hadith's ... both of them...are listed under Bukhari...perhaps it is not truly so that Umar said that. We must also consider that...and I mean no disrespect to the memory of Umar...but during the prophet's (SAAW) life...he was known to correct his companions whenever they were wrong...in deeds or in words. Perhaps...even this mention of what Umar is recorded to have mentioned...in calling what he did as bidaah..and apparently pleased with himself, to the point of calling it a 'good bidaah'..he was wrong in saying so...for the prophet is recorded to have warned against all bidaah...not qualifying good bidaah from bad bidaah. So...perhaps even the mere mention of it was something wrong. My whole point in this wave of thought is...that even though Umar may have said something of this sort...are we to follow his suggestions and directions over that of the prophet? Or...are we not to follow the directions and suggestions of the prophet over that of any man...living or dead? I think when we study all concerned with this subject...that we will come to the conclusion...that what the prophet has said...and left for us as example...is that which we are to follow, over and above the directives of any of the companions.
Om Mohammed