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Koverras
08-10-2001, 23:58
Jihad is a very broad concept.

It is used to resist those who oppress Muslims, resist those who impose decadence and vice. So muslims can achieve liberty, peace and virtue. ref: 4, 75-76.

In other words, when ISLAM AS RELIGION is threatened.

Especially in the last decennia, Arab leaders, governmental but also public, have been calling upon Jihad even when it's not justified.

Take for example the Gulf War. Which was all about "O.I.L" and nothing more. Yet Osama Bin Laden called upon a Holy war against America. America's intention was not to allow Kuwait to fall in Saddam's hands.

=> In reality ISLAM as religion was never threatened. In reality not even Muslims were threatened for being Muslims.

The only threat was probably to Osama's assets...


1) The invasion of Kuwait can't possibly have defensive reasons and thus justify Jihad. Nor can the military presence in Saudi be a reason for jihad as the US stationed there ON REQUEST by the Saudi government to help in the defence against Iraq.

Yet, Osama Bin Laden is calling upon Holy War against the infidel America as a result of that war and the military presence.


2) The way of Allah, who is wise and all knowing, has clear rules in Jihad. One must never harm women, children and old men. In other words, innocents.

Yet, Osama Bin Laden calls upon Muslims to kill ALL Americans, also American women, American children, and with his terrorist attacks he also kills innocents as in the Attack on the WTC, as in the attacks on the embassies in Kenya and Tanzania.


In conclusion:

->Osama Bin laden continuously forsakes the rules given to us by Allah the almighty himself concerning Islam and especially Jihad by killing innocents and calling upon Jihad for selfish reasons, thus making him a disgrace to Islam.

->Osama Bin Laden fouls the peaceful nature of Islam with his terrorist attacks, as nearly all independent Islamic scholars have proclaimed.

->and now with the Afghanistan theme, he is even calling upon Muslims all over the world to join him in his infidel ways.



Some may believe that the US threatens Islam. Though their actions may be considered acts of war against Irak and Afghanistan, they do not threaten Islam.

1) One can clearly see the Gulf war was a bilateral war between Irak and the World (not just the US).

2) One can cleary see that war against Afghanistan is a bilateral war between the US/UK/NATO and the Terrorists.

=> ISLAM or muslims are never threatened in either war. In the latter, the US is even providing extensive humanitarian aid to the muslim inhabitants of Afghanistan who are being oppressed, tortured and murdered by the Taliban leaders and thus the Taliban is violating the ways of Islam as well in their strife to be pure islamic.



Final Conclusion:

=> For the first time I believe ISLAM AS RELIGION is threatened to it's foundations by Osama.

=> For the first time in a long time, a JIHAD is justified against the enemy of Islam. Against Osama Bin Laden.

sure786
09-10-2001, 15:39
Assalamu-alaikum:

I just want to say that the last Will of Prophet of Muhammad (s.a.w.) was to rid the Arabian Peninsula of non-Muslims forces. American troops helped in kicking out the Iraqis, they did their job and thank you.

Don't non-Muslim Americans and Muslims like youself understand that the presence of non-Muslims is unacceptable in Saudi Arabia?

Muslims say to America go home!

Wa-salaam,
sure

Koverras
09-10-2001, 18:16
Absolutely right.

I wish nothing less than the complete removal of non-Muslim forces, not just in the Arabian Peninsula, but in the entire Islamic world.

And even now, that world is occupied with non-muslim forces.

It is my belief that Muhammad referred with non-muslim forces to the enemies of Islam at the time. And wanted the A.P. free.


While the US are infidels and one may question their policies, they are not the enemies made out to be by certain individuals craving power:

1) Because America is in NO WAY against Islam. In the Infidel's homeland, the teachings of Islam can be followed without repression.

2) Because the limited presence of US forces in e.g. Saudi are NOT by force. They are there with full knowledge and acceptance and alliance by the government so Saddam, who also insults Islam by his recent claims he is a descendant of Muhammad, stays where he belongs. So it's not an occupation.

They do not threaten Islam, and thus, they cannot be considered as non-muslim forces in the context Muhammad said it.


While regimes based on fear and prosecution of Muslims, with two big examples namely Iraq and Afghanistan, are the true non-muslim forces. The true enemies of Islam.


With the recent events, I shall take the Taliban as example of why they are such enemies.


As it is stated in the Holy Qur'an:

'There is no compulsion in religion' (Sura 2:256)"

This is one of the very basic rules of Islam. And they violate it by torturing, butchering and killing whomever they consider non-muslim or not enough Muslim. This is not only a violation against the Sharia and besides this, nothing more than just a pretext, because they only do this to oppress the Muslim population and stay in power.

Please check out http://www.rawa.org on this matter.


Another violation is their war against the Northern Alliance which is Muslim too. The assassinated leader, Massoud, had never forsaken his prayers to Allah. Massoud believed in the peace of Islam. And he was murdered by the same people who now state that Muslims all over the world should join them in Jihad.

But I am certain that the northern Alliance will prevail in their war against the Taliban, because they still walk the true path of Allah, and not one of power.


While the Taliban and Osama Bin Laden walks a path even worse than that of the infidel, they walk the path of the traitor to Islam. By making their selfish political agenda as the way of Islam, they make themselves an enemy of Islam.

And they are the non-muslim forces that Muhammad spoke about to us.


It saddens me to see that so many muslims in Pakistan are persuaded by their politically motivated talks. For now THEY TOO are walking their treacherous path and are foresaking Allah the almighty.

And on their deathbed, when they will be questioned about their faith, the angels will judge them so, and forever shall they be casted to the shadows.


Do not foresake the peaceful nature of Islam for politics! Or you too may end up in the shadows.

Wa-Salaam.
K

sure786
10-10-2001, 17:33
Assalamu-alaikum:

>Absolutely right.
>
>I wish nothing less than the
>complete removal of non-Muslim forces,
>not just in the Arabian
>Peninsula, but in the entire
>Islamic world.
>
>And even now, that world is
>occupied with non-muslim forces.
>
>It is my belief that Muhammad
>referred with non-muslim forces to
>the enemies of Islam at
>the time. And wanted
>the A.P. free.
>

Let's focus on Arabian Peninsula before any other matters are brought. The Americans should think in getting out of there.

>
>While the US are infidels and
>one may question their policies,
>they are not the enemies
>made out to be by
>certain individuals craving power:
>
>1) Because America is in NO
>WAY against Islam. In
>the Infidel's homeland, the teachings
>of Islam can be followed
>without repression.
>
>2) Because the limited presence of
>US forces in e.g. Saudi
>are NOT by force.
>They are there with full
>knowledge and acceptance and alliance
>by the government so Saddam,
>who also insults Islam by
>his recent claims he is
>a descendant of Muhammad, stays
>where he belongs. So
>it's not an occupation.
>

It has been shown that a limited force can be a bridgehead for a larger force. Americans just like Saddam aren't friends of Islam. The American forces' presence is unacceptable as you agreed with me in previous paragraphs, but now you make statements contradicting yourself.

>They do not threaten Islam, and
>thus, they cannot be considered
>as non-muslim forces in the
>context Muhammad said it.
>

Wrong! They're non Muslim forces and their presence in Arabian Peninsula runs against the last will of Blessed Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.)

>
>While regimes based on fear and
>prosecution of Muslims, with two
>big examples namely Iraq and
>Afghanistan, are the true non-muslim
>forces. The true enemies
>of Islam.
>

You cannot equate Afghanistan with Iraq. First one is a country trying to implement Shariah and other has a secular government.

>
>With the recent events, I shall
>take the Taliban as example
>of why they are such
>enemies.
>
>
>As it is stated in the
>Holy Qur'an:
>
>'There is no compulsion in religion'
>(Sura 2:256)"
>
>This is one of the very
>basic rules of Islam.
>And they violate it by
>torturing, butchering and killing whomever
>they consider non-muslim or not
>enough Muslim. This is not
>only a violation against the
>Sharia and besides this, nothing
>more than just a pretext,
>because they only do this
>to oppress the Muslim population
>and stay in power.
>
>Please check out http://www.rawa.org on this
>matter.

The methods may be unacceptable but the aims are. If the Talibans want to establish the rule of Shariah they have a right to do so. 99,9% of Afghans are Muslims hence nothing should stop a regime to implement Shariah.
>
>
>Another violation is their war against
>the Northern Alliance which is
>Muslim too. The assassinated
>leader, Massoud, had never forsaken
>his prayers to Allah.
>Massoud believed in the peace
>of Islam. And he
>was murdered by the same
>people who now state that
>Muslims all over the world
>should join them in Jihad.
>
>

Did they assassinate Commandant Masssoud? As far as Northern Alliance surely they're Muslims and a solution must be found that brings the minorities that they represent to have a power share in Afghanistan. That power share cannot be at expense of majority Pashtun

>But I am certain that the
>northern Alliance will prevail in
>their war against the Taliban,
>because they still walk the
>true path of Allah, and
>not one of power.
>

I don't know that. They have allied to Russia who's doing the worst kind of treatment of our brethren in Chechnya. Now they ally themselves with America that sides with Israel.

>
>While the Taliban and Osama Bin
>Laden walks a path even
>worse than that of the
>infidel, they walk the path
>of the traitor to Islam.
> By making their selfish
>political agenda as the way
>of Islam, they make themselves
>an enemy of Islam.
>

That's your opinion Brother. I don't agree with you at all.

>And they are the non-muslim forces
>that Muhammad spoke about to
>us.
>

When and where? Non-compulsion verse of Holy Qur'an is applicable only to non-Muslims not Muslims. If one declares to be a Muslim he/she cannot be free to practise Islam as he/she pleases.

>
>It saddens me to see that
>so many muslims in Pakistan
>are persuaded by their politically
>motivated talks. For now
>THEY TOO are walking their
>treacherous path and are foresaking
>Allah the almighty.
>

Who? Those who support the Afghan people against American attacks?

>And on their deathbed, when they
>will be questioned about their
>faith, the angels will judge
>them so, and forever shall
>they be casted to the
>shadows.
>
How can you judge? We as Muslims cannot judge those who die were they'll go. Only Allah can judge. You should rethink this opinion of yours Brother.

>
>Do not foresake the peaceful nature
>of Islam for politics! Or
>you too may end up
>in the shadows.
>
>Wa-Salaam.
>K

Ya akhi! You cannot separate politics from Islam. Islam isn't Christianity.

Wa-salaam,
sure