View Full Version : Compulsion in religon
Is it right or wrong to compel non-believers to convert to Islam? Or to use force to make someone remain Muslim?
seekeroftruth
06-01-2002, 23:28
>Is it right or wrong to
>compel non-believers to convert to
>Islam?
As for first question, i'd like you to read the fatwa issued by Sheikh Yusuf Estes on this issue:
"ISLAM is always a choice for the human that they must make consciously on their own. This applies on the individual basis. The general offer of ISLAM is for all people, in all times and in all places. As such it must be there and remain open for all to know about. Therefore, Islam must be established as an ongoing way of life and a government of Almighty Allah operating in full view of the people.
Now let us look to the verse in the Glorious Qur'an:
"Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. " (Al-Baqarah: 256)
The clear meaning of the text should be understood that the GUIDANCE of Allah as regards correct belief has herewith been established. The choice remains open for those who have heard the message. No one is forced to believe and accept the GUIDANCE. However, this does not give society at large the permission to stop the spread of Allah's religion nor to commit open acts of oppression, violence, carnage and terrorism due to their rejection of the message of the guidance of Islam."
-------------------------------------
Or to use
>force to make someone remain
>Muslim?
I hope someone else will be able to answer this question, i haven't ever faced or seen such a question, a cracker in other words. But i have read somewhere that a muslim can 'force' antoher muslim to pray.
But 'forcing' someone to stay muslim is something that i can't imagine in a muslim, for a 'muslim' will 'HELP' someone not 'force' and they will 'state' what is the truth rather then force, as we agree on that person can decide what they want!! (they can pray and recieve reward OR they can swear and recieve punishement!! its there choice!!)
>>FreedOM of choice!!
But if that is a case with a particular 'muslim' who is trying to leave islam, then a fellow human or a brother WILL ask them , why? as i or you ( i hope u would) would ask the person, for what reasons make you want to leave islam? Then if the person 'after' explanation and questions/answers e.t.c. 'wants' to change then i think we will 'not' force that person to stay a muslim. Its the persons choice! I and others will be very sorry and we will 'try' to make the person understand islam or a specific topic in islam and keep them on the straight path. But if the person does not want to stay then we cannot force!! wouldn't you do the same for a fellow christain?
I hope someone else deals with your second question, for i am in a bit of a hurry, !!
Take care!! and do keep in touch with the BOARD!! and discuss in a healthy manner!!
SadiQ!!
seekeroftruth
06-01-2002, 23:37
Salam Tita!!
Just before i go, i found a 'good' link about the scholar 'Yusuf Estes' who answered your first question;
>> http://www.islamtoday.com/yusuf.htm
Just wanted to say he was a christian before, and 'force' was not carried out on him, (just kidding) The truth is life !!!
Sadiq!! Smile for is a form of charity!!!
servant_of_Allah
07-01-2002, 05:57
LAST EDITED ON 07-01-02 AT 04:57 AM (GMT)[p]Assalamu Alaykum !
I think the brother has dealt with the first question properly, Masha Allah, and Allah knows best.
As regards the second question, i'd like to correct the brother.
A person who leaves Islam, i.e. an apostate from Islam, is to be punished by giving such a person the death penalty. Of'course, the person is asked to repent before this, and to clear any doubts he may have, but if he still doesn't repent, then he is to be put to death, and Allah knows best.
There are differences on this matter between the scholars. For example, as far as i remember, the Hanafi jurists say the death penalty is only for men, not women, and Allah knows best.
When i have more time, i shall deal with this issue.
Till then,
Wassalam,
servant of Allah.
________
AMC Spirit AMX (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/AMC_Spirit_AMX)
Dr Qaisar
08-01-2002, 00:54
LAST EDITED ON 08-01-02 AT 00:09 AM (GMT)[p]As-salaamu-alaikum, ya muslimeen
With regard to the second question and the two different replies by the brothers, indeed, there is an unsettled difference of opinion among the scholars of Islam based on different precedents, especially regarding the question of punishment meted out to an apostate from Islam. Here I would like to provide 2 sets of situations concerning the issue of apostacy and let the readers decide for themselves.
The first is actually based on the verses of the Qur'an itself, principally V.2:256 quoted above. There is another (I don't remeber the exact verse No.) but the approximate translation is as follows: "Will you compel mankind to believe against their will?". And also this one: "if it were the Will of Allah, He could have made you all believe."
Therefore, based on these verses and others, one can make the case that one cannot "force" anyone to believe in Allah and His Deen (religion) whether a Non-Muslim or a Muslim. Having said that, the question remains what should or could be done to a Muslim who decides to renounce his Faith (God-forbid). Thus, the 2 options below both based on established precedents and opinions of different scholars.
The first case would concern a person who renounces Islam but DOES NOT cause any "fitna" or mischief or conflicts or divisions or sects in the Muslim community (ummah). In this case, the opinion of some Islamic Jurists is to leave the person alone and to impose a social boycott against him/her or to expel that person from the Muslim nation or community as a token punishment. As a result, this option DOES NOT impose the severest punishment of death sentence!!
The second option of imposing the death sentence on a self-professed apostate from Islam is to be implemented (based on the opinion of scholars) on that person who after renouncing his Faith ACTUALLY causes "fitna" ie. trials & tribulations in the Muslim society or mischief or divisions or conflicts in the Muslim society/nation or wilfully tries to deceive or misguide other Muslims from Islam, then in this case the prescribed punishment for such a person is the DEATH SENTENCE.
The precedent for the 2nd option is based on Hazrat Abu Bakr's (RA) edict or decree to burn to death certain misguided persons after the death of the Prophet (PBUH), who out of their extreme and fanatical devotion to Hazrat Ali (RA) took him (Ali) as a Prophet and even as Allah Himself (Astaghfirullah)!! And they tried to misguide others also into believing their heresy and thus, if no action had been taken against them, they would certainly have caused much mischief & divisions among the Muslims. Therefore, the order by Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) to condemn these apostates to death by burning them. I think they belonged to the Kharijite sect (I am not sure). May Allah forgive my mistakes & omissions both here and in general. Ameen. I hope this helps in clarifying the position.
Wa-salaam.
Dr.Qaisar
Thank you all for your kind replies to my question.
As a follow up, why do many Muslim countries make it mandatory to be Muslim? I'm thinking, specficially, of countries like Saudi Arabia, where to deny Allah may very well get you killed. I know this is not true of all Muslim countries, but it should not be true of any Muslim countries, right? Is it just a case of being a little over-zealous in their effort to protect Islam, or do some Muslims believe that this is justified?
In re-reading this post, the following question occurred to me:
Therefore, Islam must be
>established as an ongoing way
>of life and a government
>of Almighty Allah operating in
>full view of the people.
When you say "government", do you mean an established worldly government? In other words, all governments should be Islamic states? I think--and hope--that I am misunderstanding this.
servant_of_Allah
18-01-2002, 19:27
Assalamu Alaykum !
I wanted to post this question and its answer on this forum. I got it from www.islamonline.net
Direct link is :
http://islamonline.net/livefatwa/english/Browse.asp?hGuestID=ao4zbH
Question : Can you please explain about Apostasy? Can a person born to Muslims has to be killed if he/she chooses a different religion? Is it a Hud? How about non Muslims coming and leaving Islam? I have read Hadith that people came to Islam in the time of Prophet and left, like a Christian who was also scribe and later went back to his religion, but was not killed by Prophet. Other one when a person gave alleigance to Prophet and later retracked his oath.
Answer: Apostasy is not a simple act. It has several parts. We cannot simply say that someone left the religion. We must look at the reasons and actions that come before leaving the religion.
Suppose one becomes an expatriate and fights against the U.S, (for example). This person would be tried and convicted of treason and usually killed.
But if one leaves a religion without causing harm to others or engages in treason, then there is no punishment. The Qur'an is blatant about the fact that there is no compulsion in religion. See previous answer for the exact verses.
Some people at the time of the Prophet would convert in the morning and leave Islam at night. The Prophet then announced that those joining in Islam in good faith are welcome, but those who join only to then leave and discredit Islam and then encourage others to fight Islam, that is considered treason and treated as a crime in the same way as U.S. law.
The question was answered by Shaykh Taha Jaber Alalwani.
________
glass bongs (http://glassbongs.org/)
Dr Qaisar
19-01-2002, 09:50
>>Therefore, Islam must be
>>established as an ongoing way
>>of life and a government
>>of Almighty Allah operating in
>>full view of the people.
>
>When you say "government", do you
>mean an established worldly government?
> In other words, all
>governments should be Islamic states?
> I think--and hope--that I
>am misunderstanding this.
Greetings Tita,
It is an absolute requirement that ALL governments in MUSLIM countries (only) MUST establish Islamic systems of governance in accordance with the Islamic Sharia. There is no requirement to implement the Islamic Sharia (or governance) in non-Muslim majority nations. But Islamic Sharia deals primarily with Muslim social and personal Law which should be adhered to and followed completely as much as possible by every Muslim individual,
whether living in a Muslim or non-Muslim country. There is no exemption in any situation. Yet, if a Muslim ruler in a Muslim country DOES NOT implement the Islamic Sharia (or governance) in his country in any way, then he will be held resposible by God (Allah) on the Day of Judgement. There is no excuse for him whatsoever in failing to implement all the provisions of the Sharia. Let the Muslim rulers of today be beware of their acts of ommission & commission in this regard!!!
Dr.Qaisar
Thank you, Dr. Qaisar. I've asked another person this before, and not received a reply, so I'll ask you (if you don't mind), what countries do implement Shari'a law now?
Dr Qaisar
27-01-2002, 16:05
Greetings, Tita
In it's entirety and according to the letter and spirit of the Islamic Sharia, very few Muslim countries, if any at all, in today's time actually implement ALL the provisions of the Sharia. But they do try and claim to implement the Sharia but in reality fall short of it's exacting standards. So is the case with some individual Muslims also. We pray that they may be guided to implement the Sharia in it's totality because the provisions of the Sharia concerning governance will lead to the establishment of a truly just and welfare state where every person enjoys the fruits of his/her labour and will be accorded all due just rights and freedom, Insha-Allah (by the Will of Allah).
Dr.Qaisar
seekeroftruth
27-01-2002, 19:57
Salam to all!!
Mashallah a good response.
i would just like to add this link, it should help muslims and non muslims. It is a fatwa written by the late Sheikh Hamoud al-'Uqlaa' ( one of the greatest scholars of our time), it is based on the shariah (Islamic Law) which 'was' in afghanistan.
------------------
This was the question asked to the noble scholar; and please view the link to view the answer (the article is too long, so i did not post it here)
>>>
Question: "Some people hold doubts about the Shariah implementation of the Taliban Government in Afghanistan. What is the reality regarding this government? We request from you a comprehensive answer backed up by evidences. May Allah protect you."
>>>>
The answer;
http://www.as-sahwah.com/Sahar/Fatwa%20of%20Sheikh%20Hamoud%20al%20Uqlaa%20on%20T aliban%20and%20Afghanistan%20Sunday%20February%204 th%202001.phtml
>>>>
The taliban have gone (i.e from ruling afghanistan) but they are still alive. If the taliban were the only country to have complete shariah (as said by many scholars) and they are not in power then that means there are no country in the world with 'complete' shariah. There are certain countires trying to implement the shariah, but fail to do so, because of some reasons.
and remember i did not post this to cause confusion, just state the postion of some scholars of the world.
>>sadiQ!!
Tita, i hope you are well and please do ask questions and i or other members, inshallah will be able to help you. Just think about this saying;
" The bravest are surely those who have the clearest vision of what is before them, glory and danger alike, and yet notwithstanding go out to meet it" . Thucydides
Hi Seekeroftruth,
Are you just posting this link, or do you agree with this fatwa that found that the Taliban's rule in Afghanistan was a good thing? If that was a good thing, may I never live under Shari'a. And if that whole government was completely in line with the Koran, may I never be Muslim. The whole point of this thread was asking if the Koran condones the use of force to make people accept Islam. If the Taliban didn't use force to impose their own view of religion on the world, then I don't know who ever did.
Peace to all.
Tita
seekeroftruth
01-02-2002, 00:55
>Hi Seekeroftruth,
salam to you too!!
>Are you
>just posting this link, or
>do you agree with this
>fatwa that found that the
>Taliban's rule in Afghanistan was
>a good thing?
Before i start to reply, i would say i am sorry if the question;
".....Thank you, Dr. Qaisar. I've asked another person this before, and not received a reply, so I'll ask you (if you don't mind), what countries do implement Shari'a law now?....." it was not directed to me or other members. Sorry to reply.
"...just posting this link, or do you agree..."
Tita, it does not matter if i agree with the rule in taliban or not! I posted the link to give more light on the issue. The fatwa is written by a scholar, so it does have some meaning!
>If
>that was a good thing,
>may I never live under
>Shari'a.
Now people have different views about the taliban. Now they are not perfect similar to us, no one is. And the taliban are not the only gov to implement shariah, for thier was shariah before them and inshallah it will come back! Now if you understand shariah as a muslim, everyone loves to live under it, whether it be the taliban or the chinese group implementing it. shariah is shariah!
>And if that
>whole government was completely in
>line with the Koran, may
>I never be Muslim.
Now, again no one is perfect. They are the only gov, in this century to have complete shariah. Again i say this because of my dear scholars, who have visited and said about the shariah! if scholars dont know islam then who does?
>The whole point of this
>thread was asking if the
>Koran condones the use of
>force to make people accept
>Islam.
I understand this, and i hope my posts and the other members who have posted have helped you! I am sorry if the question was not directed to me, i take the link back. But you asked "...what countries do implement Shari'a law now?....." so i am sorry if the question was not asked to me. And i merely stated some opinons of the scholars.
>If the Taliban
>didn't use force to impose
>their own view of religion
>on the world, then I
>don't know who ever did.
Now 'force', but as i said before i posted the above link for 'just posting' the link, not to say my opinon. so i will not say anything! I will rest it here for this thread is not for this topic. I hope i have not made things here more complicated.
intention: i posted the link to show some of the opinons of the scholars of the world about the taliban shariah.
So the taliban, is a different issue and the truth lies inside afghanistan. And as you said, the thread was started with a another issue. so i hope you understand.
>
>Peace to all.
Same to you!!
>
>Tita
sadiQ
Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ
Thank you. I appreciate the link, and it was certainly a real eye-opener. I will take your reply to mean that you do not agree with a lot of what the Taliban was doing.
Peace to you,
Tita
seekeroftruth
01-02-2002, 16:13
>Thank you.
Your welcome
>I appreciate the
>link,
The link was for you and everybody here.
>and it was certainly
>a real eye-opener.
>I will take your reply to
>mean that you do not
>agree with a lot of
>what the Taliban was doing.
Please do not put 'words' into my mouth. I said, i am not stating my opinon here, just giving a link about the taliban and what the scholars say. Taliban like everyone is not perfect gov, but the good points that they have proved to the world has shown that they are the only gov to have complete shariah ( saying this from what scholars have said).
>
>Peace to you,
>Tita
same to you! and remember we learn something new everyday
Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ
They have good points? I have missed those completely. All I saw in that article that was good was that they are hospitable to visitors, like most of the world is. That does not make them virtuous.
Perhaps we should start a new thread on the varying views people have of the Taliban.
seekeroftruth
02-02-2002, 19:47
>They have good points? I
>have missed those completely.
Again, im talking about the shariah inside afghanistan. Do they or do they not have shariah? that was dealt on the link.
>All I saw in that
>article that was good was
>that they are hospitable to
>visitors, like most of the
>world is. That does
>not make them virtuous.
Tita, i was talking about the shariah, not 'vistors treatment' issue or anything else. You asked the question about shariah in any country in the world and i provided a link to what the scholars say about the shariah in afghanistan, simple.
>Perhaps we should start a new
>thread on the varying views
>people have of the Taliban.
>
This could be a good idea, because as you know your org thread was started with something else and it is ending with something else. If you do start one then count me out. I stand by what the scholars have said, that afghanistan 'had' shariah. And i have nothing else to say.
But, for the last time for you Tita and everyone, i posted the link to shed some light on the issue of the shariah in afghanistan. SIMPLE!
Peace!!
Look to this day! Yesterday is but a dream, and tomorrow is only a vision. But today, well-lived, makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a vision of hope. - Brother SadiQ
Netcurtains
03-02-2002, 14:55
THE TRUTH.
ONLY God knows your religion.
Religion is personal between you and god.
If you become an "ex-muslim" only god can
decide if you were a "muslim" to start with.
The people who kill "ex-muslims" are obviously:
1) murderers.
2) not true muslims themselves as God is our ONLY
religious judge not "scholars" - who probably haven't
got any brains in their thick heads.
3) The killers should be put in front of a court themselves
for violating basic human rights.
CRY FREEDOM!
LAST EDITED ON 03-02-02 AT 02:38 PM (GMT)[p]Hi there,
>because as you know your
>org thread was started with
>something else and it is
>ending with something else.
>Tita, i was talking about the
>shariah, not 'vistors treatment' issue
>or anything else. You asked
>the question about shariah in
>any country in the world
>and i provided a link
>to what the scholars say
>about the shariah in afghanistan,
>simple.
Please see my quote below, taken from my post above:
"The whole point of this thread was asking if the Koran condones the use of force to make people accept Islam. If the Taliban didn't use force to impose their own view of religion on the world, then I don't know who ever did."
Personally, I was thinking this thread was over when I made my last post, but now I am thinking we are getting to something interesting.
The Koran does not condone the use of force to make people accept Islam, correct? And the Taliban were closer than anybody else to implementing pure Shari'a, correct? Yet the Taliban were definitely anything but tolerant or accepting of other's view points. Do you understand why many Westerners distrust Islam as a whole when it describes itself as tolerant and loving? It's a huge contradiction to say that Islam is tolerant and then claim that the Taliban were as close to perfect in their implementation of Shari'a as anyone has been. Please note, I am not trying to discredit Islam here, just point out that there's a big issue here that I have yet to hear Muslims address.
In addition, I am troubled by another thing. Before Sep. 11th, Westerners who criticized the Taliban were called anti-Islam. After Sep 11th, every Muslim government in the world broke off relations with the Taliban, except for Pakistan, and all the sudden they assured us that the way the Taliban treated women was wrong and that "real" Islam was tolerant and accepting, not like the Taliban. Why did that only happen after Sep. 11th? Where was the criticism of the Muslim world before then?
If you don't care to address these issues, that's fine. Just let me know and I will start a new thread on it. I'm not meaning to ramble or get off topic on this thread, it's just that you brought up the idea of Shari'a being in Afghanistan, and that brings up all kinds of issues of compulsion in religion.
Peace to you,
Tita
This is a request/warning to all users on this forum and on IWC. If you have questions about Islam, please feel free to ask them, and wait for replies to those answers.
However, if it is negative views and opinions about Islam that anyone wishes to express, then such people are warned not to do so, for that is not allowed here. This is an Islamic Discussion Forum. If you cannot abide by the rules, then please leave.
Thank you,
Asif.
vBulletin® v3.6.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.