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Sadiq
20-04-2002, 14:07
Salam to all!

I found this article with along with a large number of interesting articles, I posted this as it is quite interesting for all! It should help our fellow humans who have not blinded their eyes, but their hearts….

This article should enlighten a few who read with an open mind! And realize, that islam is a way of life, and the quran which has not been changed, does not contain any sort of contradiction and it is only full of advice and warnings….subhanallah!!!

Take this example, from me, imagine if the sun was at least 2mm away from us, (i.e.earth) what would happen? we would freeze to death! Imagine if it was 2mm towards us, the sun, we would all burn to death…glory be to allah, worthy of all praise…such a system…cannot come from anyone or anything BUT from the sole creator Allah.

……………

>> Belief in God

Before we venture into exploring the rationale offered by Qur’a#n to support belief in God, a basic question that needs to be answered is this: ‘Are we Muslims allowed to raise questions on religious matters?’ There are many Muslims who carry the understanding that the message of Islam requires believers to accept faith and its requirements without questioning. They believe that Islam calls its adherents to have what is called ‘blind faith’. There are basically two arguments presented from the Qur’a#n to support this understanding: 1) The Qur’a#n mentions in the very beginning that true believers are those who believe ‘bi’l-ghayb’ (2:3); the expression ‘bi’l-ghayb’ is translated by some to mean ‘blind faith’. 2) The other reason mentioned from the Qur’a#n is that the book of Allah, it is claimed, discourages believers from asking questions. It is mentioned in the Qur’a#n, for instance, thus:

O believers, do not ask about things which if revealed to you would cause you trouble. (5:101)

We shall see from the correct understanding of the two passages that the book of Allah is not discouraging Muslims in either of these verses from asking genuine questions. However, quite apart from that, it is worth considering that we are told in the Qur’a#n that when Allah Almighty announced His decision to create man, an independent creation, Khali#fah (commonly translated as vicegerent), the angels, who are normally considered as a creation that would most obediently acquiesce to all commands of Allah, raised a few questions. The tone of those questions suggests that initially they were not quite appreciating fully the divine scheme. Allah Almighty, it seems from the Qur’a#nic description of the occasion, instead of admonishing them for having dared to raise those questions, went ahead with the task of providing them with satisfactory answers. (See Qur’a#n 2:30-33).

As for the claim that the Qur’a#n has urged its believers to have blind faith is concerned, the truth is that the verse referred to above (2:3) is requiring the believers to have faith ‘bi’l- ghayb’ ie, in the unseen. In other words, according to the book of Allah, true believers are those intelligent people who acknowledge that apart from the seen world there is an unseen world as well which cannot be denied simply because of the reason that it cannot be seen. They acknowledge the unseen realities because the arguments behind their existence are so strong that there is no way out for an intellectually honest person but to believe in them. The second argument for the ‘blind faith theory’ mentioned above (5:101) is, in fact, a verse mentioning a requirement which is only situational. It requires the believers to be careful about asking questions about the contents of the Shari#‘ah at the time when the Qur’a#n is being revealed, because that is an occasion when all the concentration of the believers should be devoted to the understanding of the requirements of the revelation. Asking questions about the details of the injunctions getting revealed would amount to suggesting that Allah is unaware of the needs of His servants. Moreover if, in response to the questions raised, Allah would answer them, those details of the answers would also become a binding part of the religious requirements – something which Allah didn’t want to do out of His mercy for the humans. In Su#rah Baqarah, the Qur’a#n mentions the incident of a group of people from amongst the Children of Israel who were asked by the Prophet Moses (sws) to sacrifice a cow. The people instead of obliging by responding to the requirement, started asking irrelevant questions about the specifications of the cow to be sacrificed. This was done by them to ensure that somehow the requirement of the injunction would either be withdrawn or else its implementation would at least be delayed. As a consequence of their questioning, God Almighty kept on narrowing down the options of the solution that were available to them. In other words, a simple injunction became unnecessarily difficult because of their own unreasonable attitude of asking unnecessary questions about a simple matter. (See the Qur’a#n 2: 67-71). It is basically questions of this type which have been discouraged, not the kind of questions which do naturally crop up in one’s mind regarding the important elements of faith. The Qur’a#n itself has answered many questions in its various passages regarding the important elements of faith. (See, for instance, verses 17:90-95 and 25:32).

The other question that needs to be addressed up front is this: Is it unscientific to believe in the unseen? The only correct answer to this is that it most certainly is not. There are realities which are acknowledged by the present-day scientists without even asking for their arguments, even though they are beyond the reach of the five senses. The phenomenon of gravity is a case in point. Nobody has ever seen or touched it, and yet it still remains an indisputable scientific reality, simply because it makes logical sense that there has to be an ability in the earth which always makes objects fall on the ground instead of allowing them to move towards the sky. In other words, the data available through sense perception (all objects having a tendency of falling on the ground) was analysed to bring forth a conclusion (the presence of gravity) that was considered acceptable because of the strength of the intellectual argument (recurrence of the same phenomenon with uninterrupted regularity). Thus if there are other unseen realities the existence of which is attempted to be presented in much the same manner as that of gravity, their arguments too should be considered equally objectively, and the claims should not be rejected merely on the plea that the claim is requiring us to believe in something that cannot be seen.

Before we talk about the arguments mentioned in the Qur’a#n about the existence of God, it would be useful to mention the sources of knowledge which are normally considered acceptable.

Intuition is one of those sources. We are born with the knowledge of a few things. They are with us a priori (in born). For instance, we already know the understanding of a whole from a part, right from wrong, and certain things aesthetically pleasant while others unpleasant etc. It is claimed, likewise, that God is part of our intuitional knowledge. People of all ages have believed in God. Their description of God may be different, but in all nations there has been a clear understanding of an ultimate Creator. It is an almost unanimously accepted reality about which there are only a few people who dispute. Those who do not believe in God at all have always been a very small minority.

Sense perception – the ability of the five senses through which we perceive information – is another source of knowledge. Anything perceived through the five senses is normally considered to be authentic information and is considered an undeniable part of our knowledge. For instance, we see the sun, we touch the smooth surface of a table, we taste a sweet mango etc. and we get information about these objects which is not doubted. Another way we learn about realities is through the experiences of others who either live in other parts of the world or else who lived in this world before us. Their experiences are recorded and passed on to others to form a part of the commonly shared knowledge of all human beings.
Intellect is the third source of our understanding. It analyses the data already available to us through our intuition, sense perception, and historical records and draws conclusions. The process involves application of what is called common sense as well as logic. If the arguments in the presentation are strong, the idea is accepted as a convincing piece of information like any other source.

Let us now see how the Qur’a#n employs our knowledge of the seen world to lead us to believe in the one that is unseen.

When one looks around the physical world one is struck by the fact that there is amazing harmony and order in the creation. Whether it is the alternating appearances of days and nights, monthly appearances of the moon, growing of crops, or the functioning of human body, everything seems to be following a strict ‘code of conduct’. There isn’t a danger in this world – or at least it hasn’t been experienced in the recorded history – that heavenly bodies, for instance, would bang against each other and thereby cause the whole existence to collapse. So precisely planned seems to be the functioning of this world that the scientists now justifiably claim to have the ability to predict with utmost accuracy the exact time of the next appearance of the moon. This confidence of the scientists in the future events of the cosmos is effectively a very strong verdict of their confidence in the tremendous discipline in the system; it is effectively a belief that things are not happening in this world haphazardly, and that the discipline experienced hitherto will continue to remain likewise. Thus the present scientific understanding is in conformity with the Qur’a#nic understanding that there is order – Qudrat – all around in this world.

Another aspect of our worldly experience towards which the Qur’a#n draws our attention is the reality that it is not just a display of raw power that we observe in our surroundings; what is more directly significant for our appreciation is the fact that a good part of the immediately observable natural phenomena is serving us. The mountains and rivers, the sun and the moon, the alternating days and nights, the rainfall, the air we breathe, the plants, the crops and vegetation we get – all happening within a controlled system – are all, as if, performing in unison to ensure our survival. It is amazing, for instance, that the rainfall that we need for our crops and to get water for the purpose of our own survival is caused by a harmonious interaction of different elements of nature. It is puzzling to learn that the sun is distanced from our earth by exactly the margin that is good enough for our survival to be possible. It can simply not be written off as a fluke happening that the air we breathe continues to maintain the right mixture of nitrogen and oxygen gases to enable us to survive – the combination if it were to be disturbed only by a slight margin, we would have perished. Likewise, there are numerous other examples that can be shown to convincingly prove the fact that the miracle of life owes itself to the peculiar form in which this world of ours appears. The Qur’a#n points towards many of these facts, claiming them to be attributable to the presence of the manifestation of another attribute, providence – Rubu#biyyat.

A third aspect of our present worldly life pointed out by the Qur’a#n is that while on the one hand we deeply love our worldly life, on the other we know that we were not entitled to get it ie, we didn’t do anything to get this life. In other words, we also experience in this world, according to the Qur’a#nic jargon, the display of mercy – Rah@mat. This mercy enables all of us to continue to benefit from the blessings of this world undeservingly. If there are instances where life doesn’t appear to be a blessing, those are only exceptions meant, as if, to prove the rule. Most of the people consider most part of their lives a blessing and not a curse. That is why each new arrival in this world is celebrated as a priceless gift and each departure mourned as a tragedy. Thus in this existence of ours, we are getting huge benefits without deserving them. In other words, we are being treated mercifully.

Another aspect pointed at by the Qur’a#n is the fact that it is not mere manifestation of order in the universe, nor existence of simple arrangements meant to ensure our survival that one experiences, what is also observable to a keen viewer is the fact that the system is functioning extremely intelligently. It seems that there are objectives set forth on the one hand and there are measures adopted to achieve them in extremely subtle, complex, and ‘miraculous’ ways on the other. Survival of the human existence for a certain while, for instance, seems to be one of the important objectives of our system. However, a human child, while it goes through the process of creation and even a few years after the birth, is so vulnerable that it needs utmost attention and care. The manner our system arranges to ensure not only the survival but also, normally, the proper upbringing of the child is amazing. Even before the child is born, there is ‘arranged’ the availability of an overwhelming presence of sympathy and love for the child in the heart of the mother – who as a consequence goes through an otherwise difficult ordeal with unmistakable willingness –, father and other members of the family. Likewise, we are not only given to merely exist in this system through the availability of a bland mechanism of survival. What we have been given to experience is that while on the one hand we have the ability to enjoy the tastes of different varieties of food, on the other hand the potential of the resources of this world has been made rich enough to make available the amazing variety that could satisfy that innate demand. These subtle arrangements and numerous varieties are only an indication of the presence of immense wisdom – H~ikmat – in this world.

Thus for a individual living in this world, it is not possible to deny the existence of control (Qudrat), providence (Rububiyyat), mercy (Rah@mat), and wisdom (H~ikmat). One needs to be just living as an intelligent observer of the surroundings to notice the abundant display of all these attributes. What is the source of these attributes? How exactly can this mystery be solved? It is, as if, bits and pieces of a jig-saw puzzle have been thrown around without any solution in sight. But lo! there is a solution – the only solution that can help solve this riddle. There is only one light that can effectively enlighten the darkness caused by the absence of any proper answer to this puzzle. This light is belief in God. The Qur’a#n says thus:

Allah is the Light of the heavens and the earth. The similitude of His light is as a niche wherein is a lamp. The lamp is in a glass. The glass is as it were a shining star. (This lamp is) kindled from a blessed tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose oil would almost glow forth (of itself) though no fire touched it. Light upon light, Allah guides unto His light whom He wills. And Allah speaks to mankind in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things. (24:35)

In other words, it is only belief in God that takes you out of the pitch darkness of the anxiety of unbelief. You acknowledge the existence of the Almighty God and everything would seem meaningful; all scattered pieces of the puzzle would fall into their respective, proper places. All immediately relevant, intriguing questions would get answered. In the words of a scholar: ‘The mystery of this world to me was like a lock that wouldn’t open. I applied various keys, but they didn’t work. Then I applied the key of faith in Allah, and it spontaneously opened. That to me is the most convincing reason for my belief in the existence of God.’

Another way of looking at the question of the possibility of existence of God is to look at relative strengths of the suggestions that are offered as alternatives to belief in God. It is considered, at least by some people, that the alternatives to the belief in one God Who is the Creator of the heavens and the earth are found in the concepts of polytheism, atheism, the theory of evolution, and the big bang theory. Let us examine each one of these claims to find out whether these alternative solutions do also offer reasonable arguments to be considered as worthy in explaining the existence.

Polytheism (Shirk) is a belief that entails that apart from the One Big God there are many others gods who are entrusted with different affairs by the Him. However, only a casual analysis would reveal that polytheism is no alternative answer to the mystery of life because it is only a degenerated form of monotheism. Polytheists also believe that the ultimate Creator is only One; however, that One, they some how think, has decided to delegate some part of His authority to His self-appointed ‘partners’.

Another important alternative understanding of our existence is explained through the concept of atheism, which essentially means an understanding that there is no God. However, a little deeper understanding of atheism leads one to conclude that it is in truth no real, intellectual understanding in its own right. Some of the well known atheists of the modern times are either agnostics1 or negative atheists.2 Agnostics are those who fancy that it is not possible for us to know about the first cause (God) of the creation of this existence. Negative atheists, contend that the arguments presented by the believers in God are too weak to be acceptable. Thus, both approaches are essentially negative. There is hardly anyone amongst the atheists who can claim to be a positive atheist – the one who claims that he can argue convincingly that there is no God.

There are some people who think that since Darwin’s Theory of Evolution has helped in unfolding the process that got underway in the creation of our present existence and since the starting point of this process has also been identified by the Big Bang theory, there is now no need to look for a god to explain the mystery of our existence. This explanation as a potential alternative to the belief in God suffers from two basic flaws: 1) Both Theory of Evolution and Big Bang Theory are as yet, at best, only intelligent assumptions, requiring much to be done to be conferred the status of established scientific facts. 2) Even if the two theories are accepted for the sake of argument to be valid explanations of how this world was created, they still are not even claiming to answer the real questions. The basic questions that religion answers are: Who created this world and why? In other words all these scientific theories only answer the question ‘how’ and not ‘who’ nor ‘why’. Thus although the domains of scientific enquiry and religious guidance are different, there are some people who were naively led to believe that the present-day scientific information has precluded the necessity to believe in God.

This basic difference in the two approaches can be explained by an example. We have been informed by our modern scientific enlightenment about the entire process of rainfall, right from the evaporation of water in the oceans and cloud formation till the flowing back of the same water back to the seas where it originated from. Learning the working of this process leads some people to the erroneous, superficial conclusion that all relevant learning about rainfall has been done. However, going by the same logic, let us examine the description of a person who informs us about his experience of a particularly sultry day when his throat and tongue were parched and he was desperately looking for water. What impression would the description create on us if the individual narrates his story thus: I at last found the entrance door of a house and knocked at it. Someone opened the door. I requested for water. In response, a hand reached a fridge door and opened it, bringing out a bottle of cold water. The hand then poured water from it into a glass and offered the glass to me. Obviously, the entire description would be painfully absurd, because it isn’t the unnecessary details of the process of getting water which we would be interested in learning. On the contrary, we would have liked to know the person who was kind enough to come to the aid of our story teller. Likewise, is the case of the scientific descriptions explaining the phenomena of nature. They are a bland description of the process, without even a mention of the one behind it.

There is thus no explanation other than the existence of an Almighty, Perfect God behind our existence that claims to explain the mystery of our creation. That in itself is a very important, additional reason why belief in God is inevitable. If there were two different explanations vying to explain the same mystery, one might have given the less convincing one some chance to influence us. In the case of God, however, there are no challengers at all in the entire record of human understanding.

The immediate question that one is confronted with on acknowledging one’s belief in Allah is this: How can I know Him more? How can I appreciate and come closer to Him?

It has been clarified in the Qur’a#n that we can neither see God’s physical existence nor can we know anything about it. All efforts in that direction would prove to be not only futile but even misleading as well. The Qur’a#n says:

And when Moses came to Our appointed time and his Lord spoke to him, he said: ‘My Lord! Show Thyself to me that I may look at Thee’. Allah replied: You shall not see Me, but look at the mountain! If it remains in its place, then you can see Me. And when his Lord manifested Himself on the mountain, He sent it crashing down. And Moses fell down senseless. And when he woke he said: ‘Glory unto You! I turn to You and I am the first to believe’. (7:143)

In another verse the Qur’a#n says:

No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all visions. (6:104)

If we can neither see Him nor can His physical existence be described, there perhaps could be another possibility: to get informed about Him indirectly through analogy by reference to the description of someone who was similar to Him. But the Qur’a#n rules out that possibility as well, saying:

There is nothing whatever like Him. (42: 11)

Since God is unique, any attempts to draw similarities to help form opinion about His physical appearance would be misleading.

How then can we appreciate God beyond the mere information of His presence? The answer that emerges from the Qur’a#n is that the only way to know Him more and more is through increasing our understanding of His attributes. The more we concentrate on appreciating His capabilities and potentialities, the more we’ll be able to come close to Him. His attributes are the only way of knowing God. The Qur’a#n says:

Say: Call on [Him] by Allah, or call on [Him] by Al-Rahman (the Beneficent) by whichever name you call on Him, His are the most beautiful names. (17:110)

All the names of Allah (with the probable exception of Allah) are indicators of His different attributes. Since all knowledge about Allah is based on the proper appreciation of His attributes, it is important that some important principles about His attributes be recognised. Those principles are: 1) All good attributes belong to Him. The above-mentioned verse clarifies this truth. In other words, all important virtues we can imagine of are present in Allah. 2) All His attributes are perfect: they are both qualitatively supreme and quantitatively infinite. For instance, while our knowledge is limited, His knowledge is limitless, ie, it encompasses all past, present, and future information. 3) All these attributes are simultaneously operative. It is not that on some occasions He is Powerful, for instance, while on others He is Knowledgeable, and on still others He is Merciful. Instead, he effectively possesses all these attributes all the time. If we ignore this understanding, we are very likely to adopt a one-sided, misleading view of God. For instance, He is simultaneously Merciful and Just. If one were to ignore His justice and over-emphasise His mercy, one may end up falling into the trap of imagining that there is no harm in going on committing sins since, after all, God is Merciful. The danger of just concentrating on His justice at the expense of mercy is that it creates desperation amongst individuals, and on committing sins one gets resigned to believing that one’s case is hopeless and there are no prospects of getting pardoned even on performing repentance. Similarly, many people have been misled into forming distorted opinions by not taking a balanced position about their understanding of Allah’s attributes of Authority and Wisdom: The balanced view is that although Allah can decide whatever He chooses to, He will always decide only on the basis of His Wisdom. Some people have been misled into believing that God can take unwise decisions as well, for, after all, He has all the Authority, He decides whatever He wishes to.

It is important to note that the only source of knowledge of God’s attributes is the messages of the Prophets. All attributes of God have to be confirmed by those messages. There is no other source that can lead us to any further understanding in that area. Providing incorrect, misleading information about God is one of the favourite ways through which Satan, the devil, tries to deceive humans.

We learn from the Qur’a#n that this world of ours is a manifestation of God’s attributes. Thus the more we reflect upon our surroundings in the light of the understanding of God’s attributes, the more we are likely to develop His true Ma#‘rifat (cognisance). The process is in actual fact a potentially endless chain of observations and confirmations – observations of God’s Aya#t (signs) and spiritual confirmation of the truthfulness of the existence God’s attributes.3 Thus Dhikr (remembering Allah), which is mentioned as an important requirement in the Qur’a#n for the believers to undertake, involves both remembering Allah through the understanding of His attributes and observing those attributes manifesting themselves in His signs (Aya#t) spread all across the surroundings. The Qur’a#n says:

In the creation of the heavens and the earth and in the alternation of the night and the day there are indeed signs for men of understanding – those who remember Allah standing, sitting, and lying on their sides, and ponder over the creation of the heavens and the earth .(3:190-1)4

There are two important expressions relevant to God’s remembrance mentioned in the Qur’a#n and the H~adith literature which, in a way, give a concise understanding of His attributes. One expression is Subha#n’Alla#h and the other is Alhamdulilla#h. While the former means that God is free from all flaws, the latter means that He has all the good attributes in Him. The understanding of the two expressions put together lead us to some realisation of the perfection of our God. That is why it has been mentioned in a H~adi#th that when the two statements are chanted together, they, as if, fill up all the scales of the heavens and the earth

...............

Sadiq!

Netcurtains
21-04-2002, 12:55
I've printed the whole thing .
I'll see it it makes sense to me.

Huda
22-04-2002, 06:23
wow... what translation is this!!!

what verse is this i'd like to look it up in arabic myself...please let me know. thanks

JaLaaL
22-04-2002, 11:46
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-04-02 AT 10:11 AM (GMT) by Asif (moderator)]The ayah you have quoted is wrong used (I see that you used the translation of George Sale...he is a big lyer, read the topic "The prophet protected") The Qoran is called the Furqan, which means the difference/to make difference (25:1).

The Qoran is the source of truth, so if you want to know if another source contains some truth then we use the Qoran to make a quality control. That's all, don't talk about something if you dont know the matter. This cheap tactic is used often by JW, to try to prove that the Qoran confirms that the Bible is the truth and so on.

>Muhammad believed that God sent mankind the bible.

Nonsense. Where is your prove ? -Jesus(pbuh), the son of Maryam, was sent to the children of Israel, not to the whole mankind.


Their is a saying in dutch vancouver: Zwijgen is goud, en praten is zilver. What means: Being silence is gold, and talking is silver....in your case, talking is just sand.


x(

Huda
22-04-2002, 14:03
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-04-02 AT 01:04 PM (GMT)]:) I knew it can't be a real translation.... i've read the quran several times and never heard of such verse. Thanks Jalal...

I do hate it when people use lies to support their arguments...I do'nt mean you Vancouver... you might not do it intentionally but whoever wrote this stupid translation...is he even Arab?? is he Muslim??!!

JaLaaL
22-04-2002, 15:10
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-04-02 AT 02:11 PM (GMT)]Salaam Sis,

I had posted an article here named "The Prophet protected", but it is closed now. And I see that some parts of the article are deletd so you can't read it from the beginning.


I will send it to you through email, inshallah, there you will find out who is George Sale.

JaLaaL
23-04-2002, 09:28
A lot of bla bla bla story....
(What ru trying to do ? -Trying to explain me my own Scripture Vancouver ?)

Lets make a summary:
The Qoran makes clear that the Bible (or the Torah) you have now, is not the original Bible which was sent to Jesus(pbuh). The original scripture (which we muslims call the Indjil) is lost and later people have amde up their own distorted version of the Bible. And this is what we understand from the verses you have quoted. Of course, you can only come to this conclusion if you have read the entire Qoran with an open-mind. What you do is that you only misinterpret the verses and hoping that you can prove your own right. But that's not the way a discussion goes, if you keep insisting from now on that the Qoran confirms the truth of the Bible, than you're more stubborn than a donkey.



>p.s. Would you mind refraining from your hurtful remarks in the future. It does not give me a fair desciption of people of your beliefs.

You were insulting my religion with lies. And I confess that Im always biased against JW's, because I don't have good memories about them. I know the manouvres they use trying to mislead people with their tricks. That's what Im noticing about you.
-----------------------
Matthew 28:17-20 ***

18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: "All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things."

The final words of Jesus before he went up to heaven show that the message was for all mankind.

Regards

vancouver



WHERE IS THE ANSWER ? -WHERE CAN I FIND THAT MOHAMMED(PBUH) CLAIMED THAT JESUS(PBUH) WAS SENT TO THE MANKIND ?? -And why did you quote verses from the Bible ????
-----------------------

JaLaaL
23-04-2002, 09:57
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-04-02 AT 08:59 AM (GMT)]>Salaam guys,
>
>George Sale was said to be a big liar, albeit, probably
>true. No one has commented on this statement. Now, a
>Muslim scholar was previously questioned in his honesty and
>that comment was told to be removed. If we're going to
>treat Muslims and non-Muslims as equals, should the
>statement about George Sale be removed as well? Just a
>question of morals,
>
>JBJ

JBJ,

Nice try, but Im not so stupid to fall in your trap. George Sale is a liar and I showed that a while ago. Just a little excerpt from my earlier post about George Sale:


However, through all ages there have been sick people who stroke to the wind and gave all their blood, sweat and tears to prove that Mohammed(pbuh) should be a false prophet. This is a phenomenon, which existed yet as soon as the Prophet of Allah(pbuh) began his preaching in Mecca, and continue to this day. In the Qor'an, in Sura Sad, aya 4, we can read that the enemies of the Prophet in Mecca already said: "...This is a sorcerer telling lies!".

[b]These words are not only from that time, but still exist to this day. However, these enemies of among the Jews and Christian missionaries have never could come with evidence, and that's why they used the lies and false imputations to convince their public. They couldn't tell something else than that our beloved Prophet(pbuh) was a lying sorcerer, because how easy is it to call someone a liar as soon as you don't have any prove !
A prove for this we can see in the translation of the Qor'an of the Englisman George Sale from 1734, who admits in his preface yet to be a rigid protestant, who calls the Qor'an "a falshood in scripture" !

With his prejudiced pen he also fell further into lying and perversion, because he had no further prove to build up his false imputations. So he had distored for example the translation of aya 21, of sura Ar-room, which sounds with a good translation something like this: "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, (li-teskunuw ilayhaa)..."

These Arabic words: "li-teskunuw ilayhaa", cannot be translated other than: "that ye may dwell in tranquillity with her", just like her above, or "that ye may find calmness with her".

However, this liar, George Sale, translated this aya as follow: "And of His signs another is, that He had created for you, out of yourselves, wives that YE MAY COHABIT WITH THEM..."

"Cohabit", which he uses here, means according to all the leading English dictionaries such as "Reader's Digest Universal Dictionary" and the "Oxford's" the following: "to live together in a sexual relationship when you're not married legally."

This false translation was used of course to call our beloved Prophet(pbuh) a womanizer or other similar names, which we can still hear nowadays.



Here another fragment from article about George Sale:


The motives of george sale, who pioneered an English translation of the Holy Quran, were suspect. He makes no secret of his antagonism to the holy book of Islam. In his preface to his translation in 1734 he made it known that it was his avowed intention to expose the man Mohammad and his forgery. He records: "who can apprehend any danger from so manifest a forgery?... The protestants alone are able to attack the koran with success; and for them, I trust, providence has reserved the glory of its overthrow." George Sale, And he set to work with his prejudiced translation. You will be able to judge how 'fair' and scholarly george sale was from the very verse which 'struck' (carlyle) 'much!' Compare it with the three example already given by a muslim, a christian and a jew: And of his signs another is, that he had created you , out of yourselves, wives that ye may cohabit with them, and hath put love and compassion between you.

I dont think that george sale was a 'a male chauvinist pig' of his day to describe our mates, wives or spouses as sexual objects. He was only keeping to his promise, which carlyle overlooked. The arabic word which he (sale) perverted is 'li-tas-kunoo' which means to find peace, consolation, composure or tranquility; and not 'cohabit' meaning 'to live together in a sexual relationship when not legally married' (the reader's digest universal dictionary.)

Every word of the Quranic text is meticulously chosen, chiselled and placed by the All-Wise himself. They carry God's 'fingerprint', and are signs of God. And yet, the spirtually jaundiced....




My advice for Vancouver is: stop using works of untrusted man !







....And JBJ stop playing the devil's advocate.

Asif
23-04-2002, 10:05
The two of you, watch out.

vancouver
23-04-2002, 12:55
Greetings

The dead sea scrolls confirm that the bible has not changed. We also have manuscripts that go back before Islam started.

Regards

vancouver

Huda
24-04-2002, 02:50
Can't wait to get the mail brother... please don't forget to send it ;)

JaLaaL
24-04-2002, 10:48
Salaam,


I've sent a private message to you about your email-adress.
Check it out.

Asif
28-04-2002, 05:11
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-04-02 AT 04:13 AM (GMT)]Assalamu Alaikum

Recently, vancouver made a claim that Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said/believed that Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to all mankind. This is untrue.

"Every Prophet was sent to his own people whereas I was sent to all mankind. " (Sahih al Bukhari)

So i hope vancouver reads this, and so does everyone else.

Wassalam,
Asif.

Netcurtains
28-04-2002, 11:06
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-04-02 AT 10:10 AM (GMT)]If what you say is true does it matter?

Democracy and science was started by the ancient Greeks.
At the time it was only for ancient Greeks.
This hasn't stopped anyone else being
followers and innovators based on the ancient greek practice.

The Industrial Revolution was started by the British for the
British. It doesn't stop anyone else being followers or
innovators based on the British model.

Cervantes wrote the first "modern" novel only for Spanish people.
Writing novels is now no longer novel but it still means "NEW AND
STRANGE" and its world wide.

Jesus taught love your enemies. Peace and Love not war. He taught mainly Jews (Although you will agree I'm sure that he did teach one or two others). The law HE said is there for man not man for the law.
If I want to follow him I can - I can follow who I please.

Thankyou for listening to my Christian reality.
Thankyou for allowing people to compare concepts.

NOVEL - NEW & STRANGE. This is what I beleive New Wine is. Christians should be followers and innovators based on the original message of Jesus.

Netty.

Asif
28-04-2002, 11:46
Hello Netcurtains

Believe me, i did not understand this post of yours.

The majority of your posts are difficult to understand. They usually don't make sense, since you just stray away from the topic being discussed, most of the time.

I hope you will change this style of discussion, since i am sure many people find it difficult to understand. If you want others to understand what you're saying, then plz, change your style.

Thank you in advance,
Asif.

Netcurtains
28-04-2002, 12:13
Hi Asif,
I am sorry for my English style. I am slightly dyslexic (for a short time when I was 10 I had to have remedial lessons to help - but I still have it). I am reasonably bright however, but I do find it hard to put my thoughts clearly into words. Apologies to all. I'm not thick, just jumbled. I can write very good computer programs :-)

These words:

"Every Prophet was sent to his own people whereas I was sent to all mankind".

a) if a correct message is sent to a small group it does not make it incorrect for the larger group.
b) if a correct message is sent to the whole planet it does not make it MORE correct then a message sent to the small group.

Thus the above sentence "Every Prophet was sent to his own people whereas I was sent to all mankind" doesn't really have any meaning without putting it into context of at least a chapter or two of other text.

Asif
28-04-2002, 12:32
Hi Netcurtains

Sometimes even i have difficulty in putting my thoughts into words. So, you're not alone in dealing with this problem.

Anyway, the reason i posted the hadith from Sahih al Bukhari is because vancouver said that Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said/believed that Jesus (peace be upon him) was sent to all of mankind.

This is incorrect, as you can see, after reading the hadith.

I was correcting a mistake made by vancouver.

Bye,
Asif.

vancouver
28-04-2002, 17:48
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 28-04-02 AT 04:49 PM (GMT)]Greetings

I said that the message from Jesus was for all mankind. He was only in the ministry for three and a half years and at the time Israel were still God's chosen people who were given the opportunity to follow Jesus and accept him as the messiah. So although Jesus brought them the message it soon became obvious that they as a nation failed miserably to recognise him as the messiah. Jesus told his disciples to take the message to the whole world. This is why today there are christians all over the world in every nation. So I never said that Jesus was sent to the whole world but that his sacrifice was to benefit all mankind.I only post facts.

Even when I mentioned the Jihad on another thread it was for the purpose of showing that many muslims have the wrong interpretation of it and are therefore abusing it with the idea that all Israelites today are potential justifiable victims for them to retaliate against. I was merely influenced by the negative and potentially harmful comments that were being put out on this site in regard to voilent action against innocent people.

Regards

vancouver