View Full Version : Life of Mohammed
Hello Joe...
Welcome to IWC.... I hope that you will find this place a wonderful place for knowledge as many of us have found it.
Before I go on replying to your message, I want to tell you... from what you wrote... I think you have just got ALL your information from the wrong places! I do not believe you know much truth about islam. Please allow us here to help you understand it better. Not for the sake of being a muslim....but simply for learning about others.
"simply to hear Islam explained and defended by its followers." This by the will of Allah is what you will get.
"I leave it to God alone to impart His truth to me." Indeed Allah said, "There is no compulsion in religion" ... also its of the great principles in Islam to believe that no one can be guided except by Allah, the one true God.
That Washington Irving's book.... well.... let me tell u something... muslims in general do not read ANY book... not any book is to be trusted... even some books written by Muslims are not always to be trusted... there are people who are considered an authrity... That quote.... I have never heard of it.... never ever ever.... i have been learning for so long... never even heard of it! If that Getchell is saying the truth... i bet he'd at least provide a reference for that quote! There are only very few trust worthy sources for hadith.. thus if he was saying the truth...i'd be interested in looking at it so that i can varify for myself.
You mentioned you wanted to learn about hadith... what exactly do you need to know? I'd try to help and am sure many other brothers and sisters here would be more than happy to help
Quraan.... sure.. I think almost all muslims have tafsir book of ibn kathir... the source for explanations agreed upon for the quraan. I want to clarify... the Quraan is only in Arabic!!! The rest is simply an attempt to explain it.. thus it is not accurate... so if there are verses u think are not very clear in the two versions.... post them and i'll look up the arabic verse and tell you which verse is more accurate... personally.. the best place to read quraan online that i found is www.quraan.com so... maybe you should use that as a reference instead of the books u have. Can you tell me which versions do u have of the quraan? Who is it writte by?
Our islamic scholars have spent lots of efforts to varify ahadith... not any hadith can be attributed to the prophet.. it has to be from a trusty chain of narration.... there have been tones of hadith which are falsly claimed by the enemies of islam...i do not doubt this is probably one of them.
Where would it come from ... well... the enemies are many... including some who claim to be muslims... they just need their ideas to come across some how... what better than a hadith. There are those who hate islam...how else to push people away than to bring a proof from their prophet?? The suggestions are endless.
"Could it be a flawed rendition of some manifesto, or a misinterpretation of the original Arabic?" maybe..but highly unlikely! I am arab... i have never heard of this hadith and nothing even close to it.
"It’s hard for me to believe that Irving just made this up," I do not think its unlikely... actually if u told me he did i'd believe it!
Sects in islam.... I believe we should all just follow the prophet's way... submitters... islam means submission.. so submitters translates to muslims! I do not know if there is any new sect called submitters... i think they just try to say they are muslims... but then i have never heard of it. maybe someone else has more knowledge on this issue.
I know a friend in Arizona... I will ask her about it..
as i said.. the only source i know for computers (for quraan) that is trust worhty is the site www.quraan.com so... i do not know how much u can trust quraan from this group.
I think the only thing u can get that is trust worthy are those recommended by muslims who say they are not with any sect but merely muslims who follow the prophet's way and example!
If you are interested in some places on the web where u can check hadith, quraan, articles on islam or such... i am sure we can all provide u with tones of that.
please keep on asking if something is unclear.. we are here to serve Allah and clarify his message to the people who are searching for truth!
May Allah guide you and show u the straight path. Ameen.
peace
Rasha
Greetings,
Let me begin by saying that I'm new to this forum, so if I commit some sort of mistake in protocol or etiquette, please, before you become offended, inform me of the transgression. I also wish to reveal my Christian bias, but hope to display respect for other religious beliefs, especially those who look to the God of Abraham as their sovereign Lord. My purpose here is to ask questions about the Islamic religion from ordinary folks like myself, and compare them to the teachings I have found in a variety of books about Islam. I do not wish to proselytize, or be proselytized; simply to hear Islam explained and defended by its followers. I leave it to God alone to impart His truth to me.
I have just finished a book called "Washington Irving's Life of Mohammed", edited by Charles Getchell, and would like to verify some of his descriptions and analysis of events. Along the way, I'd like to learn about "hadith" and get some clarifications on verses in the Quran that puzzle me. I have two English versions of the Quran, and some verses seem to be different in each book.
If anyone is interested in dialog with me, I would be pleased to hear what you have to say.
My initial question concerns something attributed to Mohammed during one of his proclamations, or manifesto, after taking up residence in Medina. He is quoted as saying: "Different prophets have been sent by God to illustrate his different attributes: Moses his clemency and providence; Solomon his wisdom, majesty, and glory; Jesus Christ his righteousness, omniscience, and power - his righteousness by purity of conduct, his omniscience by the knowledge he displayed of the secrets of all hearts, his power by the miracles he wrought. None of these attributes, however, have been sufficient to enforce conviction, and even the miracles of Moses and Jesus have been treated with unbelief. I, therefore, the last of the prophets, am sent with the sword! Let those who promulgate my faith enter into no argument nor discussion; but slay all who refuse obedience to the law. Whoever fights for the true faith, whether he fall or conquer, will assuredly receive a glorious reward. The sword is the key of heaven and hell; all who draw it in the cause of the faith will be rewarded with temporal advantages; every drop shed of their blood, every peril and hardship endured by them, will be registered on high as more meritorious than even fasting and praying. If they fall in battle, their sins will at once be blotted out, and they will be transported to paradise …”
I do not expect any Moslem to agree that this is an accurate quote of Mohammed, but I would like to get some opinions on where something like this may have come from. Could it be a flawed rendition of some manifesto, or a misinterpretation of the original Arabic? It’s hard for me to believe that Irving just made this up, especially in light of his glowing description of Mohammed’s character and Islam in general.
Also, does anyone have knowledge of, and opinions concerning a branch or sect of Islam known as “Submitters”? I’m aware of this group in Tucson, Arizona, USA, from whom I purchased a copy of the Quran for use on the computer. Are they a respected group whose teachings are to be seriously considered?
Joe
Rasha,
Thank you for your reply.
>about hadith... what exactly do you need to know?<
I assume hadith are sayings or actions attributed to Mohammed. Please correct me, or expand on that if you wish. What I’m wondering about is the emphasis placed on hadith compared to the Quraan itself. In other words, when a situation arises, does one go to the Quraan or hadith first? Also, is hadith compiled in a common book such as a dictionary, and are they classified such as chronologically, or by subject? When you need instruction from hadith, can you go to one place to find it?
>almost all muslims have tafsir book of ibn kathir<
What is “tafsir book of ibn kathir”?
>the Quraan is only in Arabic!!! The rest is simply an attempt to explain it.. thus it is not accurate<
Are you saying that there are NO reliable English translations, and even the website you recommend is at best just “good”?
>Can you tell me which versions do u have of the quraan?<
“Quran – The Final Testament”, Authorized English version translated from the original by Rashad Khalifa, Ph.D, and “The Koran”, based on the Original English Translation by J.M.Rodwell.
>i have never heard of this hadith and nothing even close to it.<
Thank you, that’s good information.
>the only thing u can get that is trust worthy are those recommended by muslims who say they are not with any sect but merely muslims who follow the prophet's way and example!<
That is easy for you to say!:) Where I live there are no Muslims that I know of. And how does one know if the Muslim (is it OK to use “Moslem”?) to whom you are speaking is of the type you recommend? How do I know you are of this category?:) I realize what you are saying is important, but even within my own faith it is difficult to know, at first, who are the trustworthy ones. False believers are everywhere and often difficult to detect.
>If you are interested in some places on the web<
I would be greatly interested in knowing where I can find more accurate information on the life of Mohammed in a chronological form, such as the book I just read. Although you may not think Irving’s book was good, the method he used to paint a picture of the prophet was excellent.
>post them and i'll look up the arabic verse and tell you which verse is more accurate<
Thank you for the offer … I will send you some in another post.
>www.quraan.com<
I’m headed there right now!
Joe
Hello Joe,
Again, welcome to IWC. I hope you'll find your stay informative and interesting. I'd just like to give my main resource for reading on Islam: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/reference.html You'll find the most popular Qur'anic translations and just about as much ahadith as you'll ever want to read.
JBJ
Hey Joe...
Yep its me again! ok.... Let me see ... we got some good things in this post...
Hadith as u said are the actions or sayings that the prophet peace be upon him said or did. Islam's sacrid source is first and foremost the Quraan. The hadith merely expands our understanding of the quraan. For example, the quraan mentions prayers, it talks about prayers in morning and evening...etc. However, it is in hadith that we are told to pray 5 times a day, and we are taught how to pray also in the way the prophet prayed. The Quraan is of course more sacrid as it is the WORD of God... not of man... the hadith is merely the teachings of the prophet. Of course, the prophet was taught by Gabriel and so on.. but... still, he is just a man, so the quraan is first because it is from God not from a prophet.
Hadith... most of the hadith are compiled in books yes, the most trust worthy books which all muslims rely on are refered to as Sahih Muslim, Sahih Bukhari, Abu Dawud, Annisa'e. These are the ones I know.
Here is a link for an article on hadith narrations and how do they know a hadith is trust worthy. Not anyone claiming he heard this from the prophet can be trusted... there are specific criteria.. here is the link:
http://www.islaam.net/display/display.php?id=191&category=6
If you want to take a look at a hadith book, here is a link for Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim:
http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/
http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/
When you need instructions from hadith... speaking personally, I go to books written by islamic scholars ( I personally do not trust anyone writing anything on islam... i need authentic sources... there are few scholars whom i trust. Thus, if there is a book for those i read, they usually put the ruling + the ahadith and quraanic verses referring to it and how they knew this is the rule etc.) So yes u can usually go to one place (similar to an encyclopedia). Usually this is known as Fiqh books (most commonly used is Fiqh al sunnah). If you want a link for that too i think i can look for u, i might have it in my favourites.
so now what is tafsir ibn kathir... its a book, compiled by an islamic scholar (Ibn Kathir) in which he writes the explanations of a verse, why and when was it revealed, and its meaning based on explanation of the prophet and the companions whom the prophet taught. These are similar to ahadith (well it consists of ahadith) but the person who writes tafsir book has to be an expert in arabic to be able to teach the meaning of words etc. Its like an attempt to translate the quraan (kind of like a dictionary). or more encyclopedia which goes through the quraan verse by verse (sometimes word by word)
Now coming to the english translations of the quraan... I didn't say no reliable translations... but.. there is no 100% accurate translation because there are words in arabic which are not in english... how do u translate these??? ur best bet is to use the CLOSEST in meaning.. not EXACT in meaning... and thus first and foremost we go to Arabic meaning ( or those who don't know arabic read the tafsir to see what the arabic scholars say ). The site I recommended is one which i personally use cause i found the closest to my understanding of arabic and what i have looked up in Ibn Khathir so far. There might be a better one... I do not know!
Now the translations you have... don't seem familiar to me at all.. maybe my muslim non arabs can help us here... they do not look like "good" but i do not know....
I mean i have heard of some translations and think they are good... but... I wouldn't even bother read the Rodwell one at all... hmm... Rashad Khalifa... do'nt even know him. If you are interested in having a hard copy of the quraan, i can order one for u online for free. Just let me know u wish to have one. It will be shipped to u from Saudi Arabia ASAP.
Now how do i know if a muslim is a true muslim... you are right..this is based on ur understanding.... I mean, I have met many people in my past three years that i have practiced islam.... i have learned a lot.. and gained tones of experience.. i always happen to meet the "weird" ones. Well anyways.. my rule is this, anyone who says he is anything but sunni is a big no right away. Now sunni people... now u have narrowed it down to a smaller group. Sunnah is the tradition of the prophet.. thus a sunni is a person who follows the prophet's way. Now sunni have other divisions... most are ok... not all... its hard to tell unless u have deep knowledge of islam... i mean... there are some i met who say they are muslims... but have lots of mistakes, i mean no one is perfect... but for u... if u are still learning, you need to be careful. All i can say is.... question the authority of what u read, don't trust anyone. Read things which are 100% authentic like ahadith and quraan. If u read an article:
1. is it supported by Quraan and hadith?
2. does the hadith have referrence?
3. if the things u read sound unlogical and unrealistic... check it out. Anything that u cannot check out u can't trust!
these are rules i have for myself. The web is full of garbage.. we need to be very careful.. this is not a matter of life only.. its this life, and the hereafter!!!
So u don't know muslims in ur area... where do u live? I will see if i know anyone in ur area...
yes u can use Muslim or Moslem (well Moslim is the closest to pronounciation i think).
So lets say you met a muslim in the street and want to know if he's good or not. First, ask are u muslim? he'll say yes. Say are u sunni? he'll say yes....
:)
now u will most likely meet a muslim who follows the right way.. but what if he's not good practicing muslim.. what if his belief is mixed with modern beliefs .. etc... that comes from experience... and also i personally ask about the main Imaam (leaders) whom they learn from.
So you will say, who do i follow.. i usually read books for early muslim scholars as they are probably closer to truth.. i mean i have books which date 1000 years ago!! yes they are ancient.. this is my treasure!
you are right in saying false believers are everywhere and that's why you judge a religion by its teachings and not by its people.
U asked for links on life of prophet mohammad... my pleasure:
http://www.islamworld.net/ this is one of the best sites on islam in the internet by the way... go there, scroll down a bit.. u'll see something on hadith and under it there is Seerah/biography of the prophet. The first one (the Sealed Nectar) is a trust worthy book. Very famous book....
If you want more....let me know. I have probably lots in my favourites.
Well i do not know what picture Irving's book gave u.. but I bet it was not enough to give u a real picture of who our beloved prophet was... a man whom his friends were ready to die, to sacrifice their lives for... everyone even his own enemies loved him, trusted him, and respected him....
Glad you are going to quraan.com Best of luck. May Allah always guide us to what is best...
peace,
Rasha
p.s. Joe, keep on learning... :)
:) JBJ... thanks the site u provided is excellent.. by the way Joe, its good if u check quraan there, it shows 3 different translations with the slight differences, this is why Arabic is the only 100% correct source.
best of luck
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 31-03-02 AT 02:50 PM (GMT)]Salam to all!
Glad to have you on board!
I think the sister has given the answers rightly and JBJ has also provided a very good link, keep it up.
BUT, regarding your comment;
"...Also, does anyone have knowledge of, and opinions concerning a branch or sect of Islam known as “Submitters”? I’m aware of this group in Tucson, Arizona, USA, from whom I purchased a copy of the Quran for use on the computer. Are they a respected group whose teachings are to be seriously considered?..."
This article is well written, and it explains alot. But the purchase of a quran from this 'sect' is not wise, i feel if you go to a local mosque, and get a free quran or buy one from....the mosque, it would be better and wiser in the long run. If the person does not accept hadith, then how can they be from islam?, for both these are the things which islam is based upon.
A refutation to the 'Submitters'
>>http://islamicweb.com/beliefs/cults/submit_refut.htm
This article (below) should enlighten you and member here too;
...........
The International Community of Submitters
The Submitters are followers of the late Rashad Khalifa, a man who claimed to be a Messenger of Allah. This claim in itself is sufficient to remove the Submitters from Islam as the Qur'an states (translation):
"O people! Muhammad has no sons among ye men, but verily, he is the Messenger of Allah and the last in the line of Prophets. And Allah is aware of everything." (33:40)
The true Prophet of Islam, Muhammad, observed:
"The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me." (Sahih Bukhari)
Much of Rashad Khalifa's misguidance can be traced to his obsession with numerology, an obsession which has misguided many different people throughout history. Khalifa alleged that the Qur'an contained a mathematical code which revolved around the number 19. He went to the extent of removing two verses from the Qur'an because according to him "the word `God' ... is not a multiple of 19, unless we remove [it]", and the "sum of all verse numbers where the word `God' occurs is ... 19x6217 ... If the false verse 9:129 is included, this phenomenon disappears."
By rejecting a single verse of the Qur'an, the Submitters bring themselves under the judgement of another verse,
... Do you believe in part of the Book and disbelieve in another part? And what is the reward of those who do so save ignominy in the life of the world, and on the Day of Resurrection they will be consigned to the most grievous doom ... (2:85)
It is interesting to note that Khalifa was a numerologist who did his blighted profession justice: he predicted the end of the world.
However, Allah says in the Qur'an
They ask you about the (last) hour, when will be its taking place? Say: The knowledge of it is only with my Lord; none but He shall manifest it at its time; it will be momentous in the heavens and the earth; it will not come on you but of a sudden. They ask you as if you were solicitous about it. Say: Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most people do not know. (7:187)
The Submitters also reject the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (saws)- not part of it, but the whole of it. For the Submitters, the Sunnah is not a source of Islam. The problems this presents are overwhelming, for by doing so the Submitters have effectively destroyed their ability to perform:
Salaat (obligatory prayers), the second pillar of Islam
Zakat (obligatory tax), the third pillar of Islam
Sawm (fasting), the fourth pillar of Islam
Hajj (pilgrimage), the fifth pillar of Islam
With four out of the five pillars of Islam removed, the Submitters have little to back their claim to being "Muslim". The true Messenger of Islam (saws) warned Muslims of falling into this trap,
Narrated AbuRafi':
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch when he hears something regarding me which I have commanded or forbidden [i.e. from the Sunnah -ed.] and saying: 'We do not know. What we found in Allah's Book [i.e. the Qur'an] we have followed." Book 40, Number 4588 of Sunan Abu-Dawud
........
This article also should correct the issue;
Islam = Qur'an + Sunnah
Why do we have to follow the sunnah of Prophet Muhammad and not just follow the Qur'an?
The question may appear strange and somewhat surprising to committed, practising Muslims. How can something which is so obviously one of the bases of Islaam become a matter for discussion and debate? But since the question has been asked, we will present, with the help of Allah, the principles and bases of the importance of the Sunnah, the obligation to follow it and the ruling concerning those who reject it. By so doing, we will also refute the doubters and the misguided group who call themselves “Submitters” (the Qur’an has nothing to do with them!) Insha'Allah this discussion will be of benefit to everyone who wants to understand the truth of the matter.
Proof of the importance of the Sunnah from the Qur'an itself:
Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah...” [4:80] Allah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger...” [4:59]
Allah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “...And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [24:63]
Allah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: ”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [4:65]
Allah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life...” [8:24]
Allah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “... (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger...” [4:59]
Allah also calls all people who accept Allah but refute the Messenger as 'Real Kafirs': “Verily, those who deny Allâh and His Messengers and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His Messengers (by believing in Allâh and disbelieving in His Messengers), saying: "We believe in some but reject others": and (those who) wish to adopt a way in between. They are in truth (equally) Unbelievers; and We have prepared for Unbelievers a humiliating Punishment. To those who believe in Allah and His Messengers and make no distinction between any of the Messengers, We shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful.” [4:150-153]
In a nutsell: Islam = Qur'an + Sunnah only. You will see that all groups who deviated from Islam are violating this rule. Shi'a replace the Sunnah with their Imams and some fabricated narrations. Extremist Sufis replace the Qur'an and the Sunnah with their Shaikhs (leaders). The Submitters reject the Sunnah from the equation and claim to follow the Qur'an only. All of those who reject the Sunnah are NOT Muslims.
..............
have a good day and enjoy your journey on IWC, and if you have any questions then ask!!
Sadiq!
Salam to all!
I like the idea the sister had...the rules which she follows...
BUT
One thing that i do and i hope others here do is;
Purchase a commmentary of the hadith(s) or the quran.
Maybe the certain verse and hadith dont make sense and we understand it the wrong way...a commentary will help anyone reading the quran or any hadith.
The other thing is do get hold of a shiekh, who will be able to make you understand that certain verse.
A way NOT to get confused.! Commentary will help you on your life!
Sadiq
Joe..if u are interested i'll order the Quraan for ya from Saudi Arabia... its for free... u simply fill the application online. I did it for my friend (a new convert) and he recieved it in no time. So..
another option is to buy one (buy the Noble quraan) or one that is written by Yusuf Ali. I heard these are amongst the best.
for Hadith, you can buy Sahih Bukhari, I can give u a link to order it online... even all quraan and other stuff u can order online from trust worthy sources.
as for brother SAdiq.... Jazak Allah khairan for the info on submitters... :)
we learn something new everyday.
wassalam
Assalaamu alaikum, Rasha
I was thinking that the translation by Abdullah Yusuf Ali was better suited to someone new to Islam. The Translation by Hilali & Khan (which I think you were speaking of) is not very 'user-friendly' for beginners.
:)
maybe ur right... many of my non arab speaking friends like the Yusuf Ali version.... however, some said the Noble Quraan (which is found in the link i provided) was easier to understand. I have not used Yusuf Ali myself... I used the Noble Quraan one...and it seems fine. You might be right however... I do not know.
thanks for pointing that out... maybe our non muslim friends can use Yusuf Ali for now since its what everyone said is good..
Rasha,
Wow! So much good information and references .... however, I must admit to feeling a bit like I'm back among Christians with all the different options as to where "truth" is to be found. :) It's going to take some time for me to absorb all of this, but it should be fun.
Thanks for your effort in answering all of my questions. Some of them, naturally, generate more questions, but I think I will check out some of the references since they may supply the answers.
>the quraan, i can order one for u online for free. Just let me know <
I can't pass up an offer like that!
>where do u live? I will see if i know anyone in ur area... <
The town is Dallas ... it is about 20 miles from Salem, the capital of Oregon.
>Say are u sunni? he'll say yes.... <
Sounds like Christianity!:) I remember as a youth being raised in the Catholic tradition .... someone would ask me if I was a Christian and I would proudly reply, "No! I'm a Catholic!" Christian, to me at that time, meant some weird, fundamentalist, rolling on the floor and shouting "halleluia". I hope I am more informed and tolerant these days.
>you judge a religion by its teachings and not by its people.<
I think I understand the point you are trying to make ... that the value is in the message not in how it is carried out .... but it seems impossible to me to separate teachings from their resulting behavior. I blame the teaching when a good principle results in a generally poor behavior. History has shown that much evil and suffering has been the result of "religious" zeal, which in turn came from twisted teachings of good principles. I make a serious attempt to go beyond religious "teaching", and you obviously do also.
>keep on learning<
Good advice! I shall attempt to do so ... and I appreciate your help.
>for Hadith, you can buy Sahih Bukhari, I can give u a link to order it online... even all quraan and other stuff u can order online from trust worthy sources.<
I would be happy to get these trusted sources.
Joe
JBJ,
Thank you for the resource ... I will certainly make use of it.
Joe
Sadiq,
Thank you for the opinions concerning the Submitters. I appreciate hearing what other Moslems have to say about this particular group. What little I know of them comes from their website and articles they included with the Quran purchased at the recommendation of a Moslem I met in another religion forum. They impress me as believers comparable to Christianity's "fundamental" branch; that is, strict and exclusive guidance from the written scripture as they interpret it. I found their numerology and resulting theological propositions rather interesting, but was not sure how the rest of Islam received it. The removal of a verse to make things work out seemed rather odd, but I was in no position to question it, having little knowledge of how the Quran was assembled in the first place. If you, or others are interested in hearing their arguments, their website is www.moslem.org.
To help me understand the composition of Islam and it's diverse classifications, would you mind telling me which group, or sect, you belong to? And just how do Moslems refer to the different grouping within Islam (sect, branch, order, band, etc.)? In Christianity the most common term is "denomination", of which there are many. Would you mind naming the different branches of Islam, unless, like Christianity, there are too many to count?
Joe
Netcurtains
01-04-2002, 10:14
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-04-02 AT 10:17 AM (GMT)]Hi Joe,
If you are interested in Religion in a General sense. Some info for you:
1) Karen Armstrong. She got ##### (this word has been blanked out but she did get it nevertheless) in the post from Catholics (lol - seriously) and nice stuff from Moslims. She was a catholic nun then got really upset and now she teaches Rabbis (amongst others). Her "short history of Islam" is quite good (but of course hardly glowing account of Mohammed or Islam - just history - as best as she is able).
http://www.randomhouse.com/modernlibrary/karmstrong.html
2) This year was the FIRST year for many years ALL CHRISTIANS (more or less) celebrate Easter on the Same day. Yes Yesterday was easter for the Orthodox Church too.
http://www.assa.org.au/edm.html
Holy Trinity - Greetings from the THIRD planet, the THREE Primary Colours in human light, the THREE Quarks in a Proton, the THREE spacial dimensions and the THREE leafed clover.
in 2003 (the THIRD year in the new millenium Easter is on April 20th - almost a month later)
Hello Joe,
I am glad there are enough info for u to browse through... ask whenever u need ppl to answer not just to read. As to where u decide to stay (Christian or muslim) that's between you and God, Allah said, there is no compulsion in religion, Allah also says: Truth stands clear from falsehood...
I hope you will keep searching sincerily and only then u'll find truth.
As for the free quraan it seems the site is down right now, I will keep an eye for you and let you know as soon as possible.
hmm... I do not think I know anyone in Dallas ... here is a list of the mosques in ur area: http://www.islamicfinder.org/locate.php?ziporcity=Dallas&dist=10&start=0&state=&home=1
Ok ok I think u misunderstood about Sunni issue.... in the Quraan Allah says that He only accept Islam as a religion for us. Thus, I do not go around saying I'm a sunni!!!! I say I am a Muslim. And as a matter of fact, if you were a muslim, i won't say to u i'm a sunni, if u ask are u a sunni, my reply would be, i follow the sunnah! Which means i follow the prophet's way. I personally do not like the idea of devision and saying i'm shafi'e, i'm sunni, I'm this i'm that... Allah said he chose islam for us as a religion not sunni! The prophet peace be upon him was a muslim. period. not a sunni, not a shi'a not anything.
Thus it doesn't sound like christianity. the reason i only told u to ask if they are sunni is because there are many people who do not know and do still call themselves, sunni, shafi'e...etc. But these are the closest (in my opinion) u can get to the true teachings. Thus, this is what i told u to say... not because they are "the sunni" sect!
In true islam, we are all muslims and our religion is islam. No sects, No devision. Sadly many muslims are so ignorant about their teachings that they follow whatever anyone tells them.
well u said u find it hard to separate teachings from the behavior...then why not learn of the behaviour of the companions... these people lived islam in every sense.... it is sad u can't try to look beyond the people.... I'll tell u why... take one muslim i have in mind (its not me but i won't mention names) that person prayers, fasts, reads Quraan, loves islam, very good in manner, follows almost all the obvious teachings.... now look at this, that person's daughter wants to get married, what do they consider?? 1. nationality, 2. education 3. family 4. religion and mannres.
Looking at these 4 criteria is sad... islam is supposed to erase nationalities... we are told we are all muslims!! No difference between white and black! Why then is it a big deal?
ISlam sets the rule, when marrying look for: Religion and manners. not looks, nationality, education, family...etc. They might be important, but they shouldn't be the defining criteria. Now if u look at the teachings, u find tolerance, love, equality, but when u look at people, u see why i say do not listen to people.
http://darusalam.com/ this is the one most trusted source (to me) on islamic litereture... u can buy a Quraan, sahih bukhari...etc. I personally think u can buy anything from them with no worries... but then that's only my opinion.
= )
feel free to ask for more help.... this is why we are here. peace to u
later
Rasha
Muslihah
02-04-2002, 08:15
As-Salamu-Alaikum,
I would recommend Shahih Muslim for learning hadiths, as they are sorted out by topics.Imam Muslim had chosen the best hadiths and group them under one heading followed by sub-headings,example: The chapter on 'shalah'(prayer) then some hadiths about it and after that the sub-heading on the requirements for 'shalah' followed by other sub-headings.Shahih Bukhari contains too much and it is better for references.
To Joe, Islam is one single religion.There is no sects, but there ARE divertions.If you wish to know there are 6 groups,which I know, that claim themselves Islam:
1) Ahli Sunnah(sunni)
2) Shia
3) Muktazilah
4) Khawarij
5) Qadiyani
6) Bathiniah.
I'm not trying to make it difficult here.Just want to make sure that you get the right informations.The best is to study all and later judge which is the most satisfying.Start with the majors-Sunni and Shia because a sect would not have much followers unless it is felt to be the perfect one.
Most of us here are sunni.I can spread out reasons why I am one, but it is going to be.....long.Just keep on learning, and if there is any questions you can ask it here.You can read the translation of the Quran by clicking the Quran icon at the very top of this forum.May Allah guide you to the truth.
Muslihah.
The Majority of Muslims I believe is Sunni's...i.e simply follows the traditions of the prophet. There are others who have deviated like you said sis. I pray that Allah guide us all to what is right...
The prophet peace be upon him said: My Ummah (i.e. community) will be devided into sects, they all will be wrong except one. When asked which one, he said: The one that follows my minhaaj (my way or path).
[this is my own words meaning i tried to translate it to best of my knowledge....remember i'm not a scholar so don't quote me.. if anyone wants the scholar's translation i'll look it up in sahih bukhari or muslim]
As I mentioned and I think this is what Sis Musliha wanted to say.. that we are all muslims... we are either muslims or we "call ourselves" so. If you are true muslim then u are a muslim...otherwise.. ur just using a name! Just like the many so called christians who do not even know a thing of christianity.
peace
Rasha
Netcurtains,
Yes, I'm interested in religion in the general sense, however it looks like I have enough references here to keep me focused on Islam for quite a while. But thanks for the information.
Rasha,
>I think u misunderstood about Sunni issue.... <
Probably .... I'll be prone to do that with all the new terms and unfamiliar traditions. Hope you will have patience.
>Sadly many muslims are so ignorant about their teachings that they follow whatever anyone tells them<
This seems to be true of most, if not all, religions. However, it also seems to be true that religion itself tends to complicate the basic message so badly that the ordinary person finds it too difficult to follow and just sits down on the nearest bench. For example, Jesus summarized the Jewish "ten commandments" with, love God and love your neighbor; and from what I have been able to understand, your Prophet did the same. But men will spend centuries detailing, and complicating such a simple thing until we become enemies over who is right ........ IMHO.
>feel free to ask for more help<
Thank you! I certainly will .... however, I may be scarce for a while since I have much to examine and digest.
Muslihah,
>6 groups,which I know, that claim themselves Islam: ,
Thanks for the information .... I had never heard of several.
>The best is to study all and later judge which is the most satisfying.<
That sounds like a mighty project! :) I'm not sure I would know how to begin to "study" even one, much less "all". But I do understand what you are saying, and it's good advice. I have to do the same thing within my own religion.
While on the subject of different groups ... many here in the USA are confused about where to put the Afghanistan, Taliban in the Islamic religious system. Are they a religious division of Islam, or a branch of one of the six you mentioned?
>I can spread out reasons why I am one, but it is going to be.....long<
No need to do that .... I probably would not be able to appreciate the differences at this stage of my understanding. One question does come to mind however .... I hear much of the principle which claims there is no compulsion in religion .... does that mean a Shia is just as much of a true believer as a Sunni?
>You can read the translation of the Quran by clicking the Quran icon at the very top of this forum<
Good tip .... thanks for pointing that out!
Taliban tried to establish an islamic state... they did have their mistakes but never the less they tried their best i believe with their limited resources. It is not one of the 6 mentioned... the Taliban are simply Sunni's who tried to make an islamic state! They were more strict than others (some call them Wahabeyeen or Salaf) but they are Sunni's.
"No compulsion in religion" means that I cannot force u to be this or that.. you must chose for urself. I must not pressure you, or do anything except present to u truth... its for u to choose so that u will be judged based on ur choise. It doesn't mean they are as much true believers... for example... u might want to be a christian... i chose to be muslim... we both have the choice to believe what we like.... "no compulsion in religion"...also I can choose to be a muslim sunni...others might want to be muslim shia... their choise.. but remember we will be judged by Allah on our choises... we will be asked... WHY DID U PICK THIS? Why did u reject truth.. lets say for example that sunni is right... Allah will tell the Shia.. haven't you heard the truth from the sunni's?? Why didn't you believe it?? And trust me I know many who believe in what we believe as sunnis but follow their parents (i'm not claiming that sunnis are right and others are wrong.... although i believe its the right path but this is not for me to make a judgement...this is Allah's duty).
Hope this explains it.... :) I'm sure other members will explain it better
:)
I have patience when its dawah work (telling others about truth) inshaAllah (if Allah wills).
Take ur time, and we'll be here to help.
Joe... here is the site i mentioned once where u can order a free Quraan with few booklets...
just one tip...because there is a HUGE demand for books... they will not send u any unless in ur comment section u write something like... I'm a Christian and want to learn about Islam. in religion section WRITE Christianity... do not leave it empty.. they give priority to non muslims... because i ordered two one for my address (to give to another new muslim) and one for a non muslim man who was almost a muslim... he was still thinking...thanks to Allah he saw the truth just recently but they gave him priority which is good... so do fill it out.
here is the site: www.alharamain.org
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 04-04-02 AT 08:27 PM (GMT)]Salam to all!
Glad to see so many responses!!
Joe> I am really happy, that you are 'seeking' the truth! And you are reading up on islam!
The issue of 19ers or whatever they are called have been refuted many times. The main thing is, a person who does not accept the sunnah or the prophet's way, is not a muslim. Allah has told us to pray, but how to pray...? the sunnah comes here. Allah has told us to pray...but as many muslims will tell you, your prayer will NOT be accepted without the surah fatiha (the first surah)...this is well known. Every prayer 'must' include this surah....so again...this instruction is only found in the sunnah.
There are many groups...but as one member has shown the most well known. As one scholar told, the group which is correct..if the person is confused,....the correct group is the majority. There are many groups who do not agree with the past scholars and have introduced many things...yet the other extreme is that they have taken away many things.
Best thing....is to find a scholar and they will be able to help you. There certain people in the muslim community, who by just reading couple of books and listening to tapes, they become scholars (or DIY shiekhs). So find someone who is an imam or has graduated from a madrassah.
Yes, internet is a great place. But the threat of 'so' many sites, inviting people, saying they show islam....are a great many. Best thing...order a quran...and get the hadith collections which are in english too. (remember to get the quran with arabic too).
Take care..and if you live in UK...let me know..i might be able to help..you can write...but words have changed the world.!
Ask questions....if we can help...we will...and inshallah....if you need more references or anything........let us know!!
Sadiq! Watch out! And stay safe!!
Salam to all!!
Just want to say...
As my dear traveller 'joe' is reading up on the rasul...prophet muhmmad who is the best man to walk on this earth... i would recommend this book... it explains everything about the prophet...for anyone...muslim and non muslim.
' Ash-Shifa' by Qadi Iyad al-Yahsubi.
>The english translation has been done by Madinah Press. I think it can be found in many book shops and it can be found....
It explains and shows who this man was, who was a small spark that changed the world and until today...the message that he has brought and the character that he has expressed have not been yet found on anyone in the history of mankind....
Read up on the book and enjoy IWC~
Sadiq
Sadiq,
I appreciate your helpful spirit and would like to ask a few questions. At times in my reading it seems that “hadith” means something different than “sunnah”, but at other times they seem to be the same thing. Would you mind giving me your understanding of these terms?
Also, when the prophet is mentioned, a parenthetical remark is made which seems to be a prayer for him. Where does this tradition come from? I also notice some provide the words, others an abbreviation, and still others offer it at the end of a communication to encompass all previous mentions of his name. Are all of these forms correct? And if I may offer a personal observation without giving offense ….why would a prayer for the prophet be of any significance since he has passed on and should be in a place of eternal peace and fulfillment? Or does Islam teach, as some Christian groups, that there is a state of being after death were change can still take place with respect to a persons eternal destiny?
One last thing .... when I read some versions of Quran, I see text in parenthesis (.... ). I assume the words are not part of the Arabic text, but have been added for clarification of meaning for the English reader. If I have the wrong impression, please correct me.
>find someone who is an imam or has graduated from a madrassah.<
I don't even know where to find a Moslem much less an imam. :)
>(remember to get the quran with arabic too).<
Do you have a recommendation? I am trying to decide which version of an English Quran to purchase.
Hey Joe...
I know ur questions were not for me... Sadiq mentioned he'll be away.. I hope he is still around to answer them... but just in case he doesn't... i'll answer some of them.. the specific ones u sent for Sadiq i can't answer for him.
sunnah = hadith. sunnah simply put is the tradition of the prophet (actions, words, etc). Hadith is specificaly the words of the prophet. thus hadith is part of the sunnah.
the paranthetical remarks after the names of ANY prophet (peace be upon them - or PBUH , here H for him) is the way we show respect for the people who were chosen by God to serve him and deliver his message to mankind. We say Jesus peace be upon him, Moses peace be upon him, etc. or i can say: Ibrahim, Mohammad, Moses, and Jesus peace be upon them all, etc. I believe there is no defference... however they are needed to show our love and respect.
The prayer on the prophet.... well... it wo'nt make a difference to him!! Nothing helps an individual except his faith and his work in the way of God. The prophets are the best people who had faith in God and who worshiped him in the best manners. They are the chosen ones because they were the best amongst people. Our prayers for them won't mean much to their level and status, however, Allah loved these prophets that's why he chose them. Ibrahim for example is called the Khalil of Allah.. khalil is more than a friend! What an honour! To be the close friend of God! Every prophet is described in a manner that is unique to him and thus each and everyone of them is special. peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all.
our prayers on them however benefits us. When we pray for these prophets, we show not only respect but also love for them and inspiration by their actions and faith. This means we obey God for he ordered us to believe in every one of them. We love that which God loves! The prophet peace be upon him said, the greedy is the one whom i am mentioned in front of him and he does'nt say peace be upon him. Also he said that the one who says peace be upon him 10 times in the morning and night (with sincerity of course) will be granted the intercession of the prophet for him on the day of judgement. So the prophet will ask Allah to forgive that person. If Allah wills, then he will accept it. We must know that prophets are very close to Allah and thus, anyone whom a prophet interceed on his behalf is indeed lucky!
we are also told in a hadith that the prophet peace be upon him said, the one who sends peace salution to me once, Allah sends it to him 10 times!! Imagine God sending u salutation????? <smile>
When a person dies, that's it. All his deeds are closed except for three: (this is mentioned in a hadith)
1. a charity (for example if he built a mosque, people will pray there even after he died, and thus he will continue to get reward, or if he built an orphantage, etc)
2. knowledge which people benefit from. So if the man is a scholar and writes a book which people continue to benefit from even after he dies, then he gets reward.
3. a good peious son who prays for him. So if ur a good peios believer and u pray for ur father who died, maybe God will allow ur prayer to forgive some of ur dad's sins (if ur dad is a believer as well)
When we die, our judgement starts, and we are in the grave, and shall start being punished for our sins, or rewarded for our actions. The believer in the grave will see paradise and say O God, make the hour (i.e. day of resurrection) come quickly. And the disbelievers will see the hell fire and say.. O Allah make do not make that day come!
May we all be amongst those who see paradise and wish for a quick resurrection. Ameen!
The person's eternal destiny is determined by whether he believes in the true god, with the right belief or not. this is what determines if u are a believer or not. If you are a believer, but u still have sins, then u will pay back for these sins (i.e. be punished to be purified) then you will enter into paradise. If you are not a believer, its useless after u die. that's it!
As for Quraan, the ( ) are used to explain as u said. This is because... if u said the "sky is raining dogs and cats" in english ppl will get it. in arabic, no one will. Similarly there are things which are in the actual quraan which don't make sense if translated exactly to english and thus the ( ) are to explain meanings. so yes u are right.
"I assume the words are not part of the Arabic text, but have been added for clarification of meaning for the English reader."
you are right.
Imaams are found in mosques. There is a site called islam finder (i can look it up for ya if u wish) which u put ur zip code and it tells u where is the nearest mosque to your home. You can use this to find a mosque or an islamic centre. U should find an imaam there, and tones of muslims too.
:) which versoin of quraa.... well that was for Sadiq's opinion... u know mine anyways.
keep asking joe... we all would love to share with u submission, Islam!
Dr Qaisar
06-04-2002, 23:46
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 06-04-02 AT 11:47 PM (GMT)]Greetings, Joe
>
>Do you have a recommendation? I am trying to decide which
>version of an English Quran to purchase.
I would like to reproduce a post which I wrote sometime ago in answer to your question above. All these are available online and can also be purchased widely.
************************************************** *********************************************
One would have to appreciate that any kind of translation, whether of the Holy Qur'an or any other book into another language, would not be able to recreate the original essence. Nevertheless, a working translation of meanings of the Qur'an is available both in print and online, Alhamdulillah (All Thanks be to Allah). The works of Pickthall, Yusuf Ali, Al-Hilali & Muhsin Khan etc. are among the most widely read translations. But there is no such thing as the ‘best translation‘. A few websites have been mentioned and I will recommend some others.
1) Qur'an Online: Meaning & Commentary by Yusuf Ali
HTTP://MUKHTAR.HOME.MINDSPRING.COM/contents.html
(Note: earlier, this site contained the commentary also but is now available with a link. It also has a link to amazon.com where you can buy the copy of Qur'an online; click on the "?" or "about" icon).
2) The translation I prefer myself along with Yusuf Ali is that by Dr.Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din al-Hilali & Dr.Muhsin Khan, available online under the title, "The Noble Qur'an". The notable feature of this translation is that it uses simple, plain English rather than the archaic English used in others. Also it contains relevant quotations from the Ahaadith as footnotes for further elucidation. But these quotations are not seen in the online version! The URL is:
HTTP://WWW.UNN.AC.UK/societies/islamic/quran/neindex.htm
3) If you are new to Islam, then you can read the Qur'an in Arabic also in books and websites which provide a TRANSLITERATION of the Qur'an alongwith the translation, as given below:
HTTP://WWW.USC.EDU/dept/MSA/quran/transliteration/
4) If you want to compare translations from 3 different sources, Pickthall, Yusuf Ali & Mohammad Shakir or do a word search, you can do so at the following URLs:
HTTP://WWW.USC.EDU/dept/MSA/quran/
HTTP://WWW.STG.BROWN.EDU/webs/quran_browser/pqeasy.shtml
5) Finally, if you really want to acquire a copy of the Qur'an with a fairly "decent" printing & binding, there is a Saudi publication of Yusuf Ali's translation & commentary which is distributed free of cost!! You will need to contact the Saudi Embassy or Consulate in your country or region or some Islamic center/Mosque and request them for one. Otherwise, you can order a copy online from sites below:
www.ummah.net/icc
www.salaam.co.uk/icc
www.MUKHTAR.HOME.MINDSPRING.COM/about.html
If you have any difficulty in understanding the Qur'an or its meanings, we would try to do our best, for the sake of Allah Most High.
************************************************** *********************************************
Dr.Qaisar
He can just get a free Quraan for alharamain site!! Its a saudi publication too!!
I don't know why Joe wants to buy when he can order it for free!! Come on man! I hate the fact that they "sell" the quraan! It should be free for everyone!! They are not the authors anyways! Its the word of God. This is why i love it in Saudi... u just ask and u get Quraan for free!
Rasha,
Thanks for your previous post .... I am glad to get information from all when I post to a particular individual.
Regarding the free Quran, I have made an attempt to get one but they are presently not providing this service. I am purchasing a copy of the Noble Quran .... mainly because I detest early English. Shakespeare and the King James version of the Bible give me a headache :)
Dr. Qaisar,
Thank you for the information ... I am interested in the Ali version and will do some online research. In the mean time I think the Noble Quran might be helpful.
Joe, they write on their page they are under demand etc right? Still fill out the form. They will send u do not worry. Just fill it out regardless. You won't lose anything.
The noble Quraan is a good one, I use it with my other sisters at university when we do study circles every mondays, wednesdays and fridays for Quraan study. It is not hard to understand and they have some footnotes which we all find very inspiring and helpful. In the footnotes they put ahadith which relate to a particular verse... we all love it.
I hope u will like it too.... it is truely beautiful.
Ohh by the way joe, have u checked the quraan link we all provided? have u read few chapters??
Umar Ibn Al Khattab, one of the great companions who became a leader for the muslims after the death of the prophet and the death of Abu Bakr (another companion) was once one of the main enemies of islam. The chapter from the Quraan which made him convert was the chapter of Taha.
:)
I think every chapter of the quraan is special.... now that i think of it... when i read a chapter... i fall in love with it and think its the most beautiful one... when i go to the next one... i find it beautiful too and think its the most beauful one. SubhanaAllah (glorified is Allah)
Well anyways... enough of my talk... keep learning joe... because on day of Judgement God will ask each and everyone of us... he will say: I made knowledge easy for u to attain, did u learn? Did u study? Did u gain enough knowledge to know Me (God)?
If our answer is no... we will be in big trouble... let us all keep learning about God and his religion... lets keep searching for truth!
>
>sunnah = hadith. sunnah simply put is the tradition of the
>prophet (actions, words, etc). Hadith is specificaly the
>words of the prophet. thus hadith is part of the sunnah.
>
This isn't entirely accurate.
sunnah basically means a way of life, or way of doing things. It can be applied to culture of communities, or the actions of a person who usually does things a certain way. "sunnah" as i is understood by most Muslims on a day to day basis, means the way of Muhammad pbuh. This would include his actions, words, approvals or disaprovals. This form of Muhammad's pbuh Sunnah, is seen as the best way to apply our religion, or things in general throughout our lives. For instance the Prophet pbuh was known to have liked perfumes very much (in his time oil) so much it was said of that one could smell him before they actually saw him. :)
Hadith is litteraly an acount of something passed on from one to another. It is used in the Qur'an as this general sense (btw sunnah in the Qur'an is never used to indicate the ways of Muhammad pbuh but ways of past nations in general) Hadith collections contain not only the accounts of the sunnah of muhammad pbuh but it also records stories of what he looked like, as well as stories of his companions.. or muslims throughout history. Not everything in a hadith collection is just the sunnah of Muhammad pbuh.
Might seem slight difference to some.. but than when people go to ahadith collections and find hadith.. they assume it was something Muhammad pbuh said.. and it very well have been a saying or action of his close companions (you'll find such relations in all collections)
as for the best translation of Qur'an (I should say interpretation because they all are intereprted) I would suggest using several. I have found faults w/ all of them. It basically comes down to a choice of words that convey an interpretation rather what it is in arabic litteraly.
the hadith is what the prophet peace be upon him said... narrated by his followers!
ok sunnah is his way of doing things... for example.. it is sunnah to wear ur right shoe before the left... i can also provide a hadith for it. i.e. a saying by the prophet narrated by his companions and recorded in hadith books after he had passed away as to preserve it for future generations that he said to wear right first. is it as holy as the quraan. of course not. is it a sin not to do so.. no it is not.. its just the way the prophet did things... and if u love someone.. u follow him!
i'm not so knowledgable in deen but to me these seemed like the basics here.
Nzingha,
Your explanation is appreciated and prompts me to ask several questions concerning some of the things I have been reading at the various websites and in the Quran. Let me give you a summary of what I think I am seeing, and perhaps you can correct me as needed.
The Quran contain words directly from God; information about Himself and His creation, and instructions on how humans should live. Nothing is the Prophet's own notions or ideas .... all is from God. Hadith, on the other hand is information or instruction which is indirectly from God through the Prophet; either something he said or did directly, or indirectly through his companions. Sunnah is, as I'm understanding it, something the Prophet did, and is worthy of emulation .... the origin of a tradition. Ijmaa' is the authority used when the Quran and Hadith/Sunnah seem not to provide a direct instruction.
Now whether some of that, or all of that is true, I'm uncertain; however one thing for sure .... I can't seem to grasp the relationship between Hadith and Sunnah :). Is all Sunnah, Hadith, but not all Hadith, Sunnah? And, as Hadith seems to be organzed in a systematic way, is Sunnah also?
Finally, is anything that is judged Hadith or Sunnah a requirement for Moslems to emulate? For example .... you mentioned the Prophet's propensity for perfumes. Is that considered Sunnah? Is it considered something desirable for Moslems to emulate ... or even a requirement?
Hello Joe...
Hey your getting it straight!! I'm impressed that you learned so much. Well I think u got everything right except i'm not sure u know what Ijma'a is. As far as i know.. Ijma'a is what the scholars have agreed upon. For example, lets say the prophet didn't discuss a specific issue directly.... he said other things which relate but not exactly address that specific issue.. the scholars sit together... they discuss a matter.. based on the teachings, the quraan, and hadith and come up with a conclusion... what they all agree upon is ijma'a. I think this is done only in early generations of the companions, those who were taught by the prophet and not for anyone of us to decide. so in a way yes u are right...its when the quraan and hadith do not provide exact instructions...
Hadith and sunnah again.... ok... hadith is words... for example... if i quote to u something the prophet said.. this is hadith.. a direct quotation!! I would say, The prophet peace be upon him said: "You will not believe until you love for ur brother what u love for urself." This is a direct quotation... this is hadith. Something he specificly mentioned.
Now Sunnah... it contains some hadith and some actions... if the prophet says: "it is prefered that u wear ur right shoe before ur left" this is a hadith(quotation). It is also a sunnah since it is not an order from Allah to do it. Not doing this is not a sin. It is a sunnah, i.e. not compulsory... but doing it is rewardable by Allah since when u do it, you obey the prophet and by obeying the prophet you obey Allah. Also, if the prophet did something like u said which is good, we do like he did...this is also sunnah. The difference between sunnah and quraan is that sunnah is not always a must... quraan is always a must to obey... some sunnah becomes wajeb (must) but not all of it.
"Is all Sunnah, Hadith, but not all Hadith, Sunnah?"
no... sunnah as i said are actions and words.. the word parts are hadith... the rest is not. hadith is not all sunnah as some ahadith talk about things which are not actions (traditions). For example, some ahadith adress the day of judgement... this is not a recommendation to do something. Sunnah usually involves how u do something. Its the actual actions or instructions on how to do something. Hadith contains other things which teach us about day of judgement, about manners, about prophets, about God himself.... etc.
I do hope this helps. Sunnah and hadith are usually organized in a systematic way. Sunnah is organized in a book called Fiqh As-sonna which is a book that contains all the narrations on how the prophet did things.
is anything judged by hadith or sunnah a requirement...yes we must accept hadith.. Allah said in the quraan... obey Allah and obey the messenger... thus if the prophet said love ur brother like u love urself... then u must do it in order to be a believer... however there are part of sunnah which are extra things to do. For example, the prophet peace be upon him prayed 2 extra "units" after the sunset prayer (which consists of 3 rak'a - units). This is narrated to us that he did this. Did he say specificly to do it??? I am not aware that he ordered us to do it. Thus it is not a must. If i don't pray it... i am not punished for it.. if i do.. i am rewarded as an extra deed. The hadith is a must to follow.. because it has the instructions for us to follow... it is direct instruction from the prophet... sunnah is just the way he prefered to do things... we don't get punished for not doing it... but we get rewarded for doing it.
The example u mentioned... the prophet liked perfume... this is sunnah.. he liked it. did he say we must do it??? He recommended it.. so we are preferred to put it (for males) but it is not a must. not a requirement but desirable since the prophet did it and recommended it.
The science of hadith and sunnah is wide... the scholars have devided it into many things and classified them as wajeb (must), mustahab (highly recommended), and the rest are just as u wish i guess. There are some which are moharram (prohibited), makroh (disliked)...etc.
hmm... maybe this will help u... in arabic.. the word hadith means talking... the word sunnah means tradition...
so i sleep at nine.. this is a tradition... i said to u.. "I sleep at night" this is a hadith (exact quotation)...
does that clarify it?? i hope so
Hello Joe
nice to see you doing alot of reading here :)
The reason why sunnah and hadith can become confusing is that muslims tend to use them interchangably. Not necessarily correct, but to make a long story short.. there was a time in Islamic scholarship that the sunnah became only limited to the way of Muhammad pbuh. And since the hadith contains "the sunnah" muslims use it denoting one thing.
Sunnah means a way of doing something.. or a custom in soceity. This is how it is used in the Qur'an.. the way of Allah.. or the custom of nations passed. When discussing the ME i might say it is the sunnah of those in the arab world to eat with their right hand and not use utensils. Or it is sunnah for them to work in the morning and not work in the afternoon but take a break.. latter returning for work when the sun is not so high. So these are the customes or the ways of the people.
So you should understand "the sunnah" as they way Muhammad pbuh did things.. in his personal life as well as his religious life. For instance, it was his sunnah to not just wash his face before prayer, but also to clean his nose and rinse his mouth. Since this is a religious function.. muslims follow this custom when washing for their prayers.
Now take my earlier example of his perfume.. it was his personal like.. his personal custom not something that Muslims must follow or have to do. They can choose to do it.. promotes good hygeine habits :) but not a must.. this is just something that he personally liked.
Hadith.. are stories, or tales passed down from one person to another. Simply narrations.. which are now contained in the written form. presently hadith collections contain information about Muhammad pbuh.. what he did or said.. or looked like.. ect ect. In these stories we find out what his sunnah was. What were his customes and how he lived his life.
But hadith are not limited to just stories of Muhammad pbuh.. they also contain information on how Muhammad pbuh was burried.. how Umar ruled on certain things long after Muhammad's pbuh death.. But much of what you'll find is information about Muhammad pbuh and his sunnah.. especially how he lived the religion.. and implamented the Qur'an in daily life. This is where the importance comes in.
i'll get to your questions now.. assuming you have a clearer picture on what is sunnah and what is hadith.
>
>The Quran contain words directly from God; information about
>Himself and His creation, and instructions on how humans
>should live. Nothing is the Prophet's own notions or ideas
>.... all is from God. >>>
This you are corect on
>>Hadith, on the other hand is
>information or instruction which is indirectly from God
>through the Prophet; either something he said or did
>directly, or indirectly through his companions.>>>
but this not really.
As i stated above sunnah is the custom.. hadith is just the narration of events. in light of this.. when Muhammad pbuh set a custom of how the religion of islam is to be followed this is the sunnah.. and this is what he was given as understanding by Allah to show the people the religion.
For instance in the Qur'an Allah mentions that someone who steals should have their hands cut off.. this is a non repentant person and one commits the act over and over. Now it was Muhammad pbuh who qualified this and stated that this can only be done if the amount taken was worth more than a certain amount. So this didn't include someone who stole a gumball. This is understood as guidance from Allah to Muhammad pbuh on how to implament Islam. And on this he wasn't wrong.
If he was wrong in his decision he made on his own he was corrected by revelation in Qur'an. For instance after the first battle against the pagan mekkans the Muslims one and had hostages. They didn't know what to do with them.. so after discussing it w/ those close companions with him it was decided to kill one person who had been very nasty to the muslims in mekkah. So they did.. than revelation was given by God to Muhammad pbuh that such an action was wrong.. that he was not to kill his captives.
So it was his sunnah that was the gudiance of God. known as the Hikmah.. or truth that was given to Muhammad pbuh with the Qur'an. It states in the Qur'an that Muhammad pbuh was given the Qur'an and the Hikmah.. rather than it being hadith.
Hadith being a narration is passed on from one to another.. forming a chain of narration known in islamic scholarship as "isnad" which when evaluation hadith.. this is the first to be looked at. so not every hadith is even correct.
>>Ijmaa'
>is the authority used when the Quran and Hadith/Sunnah seem
>not to provide a direct instruction.
>
yes Ijma is consensus.
>And, as Hadith
>seems to be organzed in a systematic way, is Sunnah also?
>
I hope you now understand the difference between sunnah and hadith to know that sunnah is organized in any way :) but hadith is catagorized depending on the one who made the collection
for instance.. Imam Bukhari who is well known for his "sahih" .. a 9 volume collection of hadiths. He catagorized them for his own reasons.. since he left no direct information of why and how he did things in regards to this collection.. most have concluded it was done on the basis of his understanding of law. He also repeats many traditions that he believed may give a basis of law for several matters and not just one thing. Others like Imam Hanbal in his collection collected everything he knew of about hadith in their different chains of narration.
Now just so you follow here.. when i say chains of narration.. it is the line in the story.
For instance.. say we are both in a gathering with three other people.. listening to a speaker on a specific topic. we all go home.. and you decide to share what the speaker said verbatim with your wife.. she than shares this inforamtion with her friend (cindy).. and her friend shares w/ her husband (Pat).
I decided to go home and share with my mother (umm zingha) and my husband (yehya).. my husband tells a friend (ahmad) at work who goes and tells his wife(Amsa). My mother decides to tell two of her friends (Joan and Rachael).
in your chain of trasmission it would go like this.
according to Pat who was told by Cindy who was told by Joes wife who was informed by Joe: The speaker said this "...
my chaing of transmission would be
according to Amsa who ws told by Ahmad who was told by yehya who was told by Nzingha: The speaker said this"...
According to Joan who was told by Umm nzingha who was told by Nzingha...
ect .. i think you get the point :)
to further emphaize the difference between sunnah and hadith.. we can look at the bible.
the sunnah would be the words and actions of Jesus pbuh the hadith would be the gospels.. those who reported what exactly Jesus's sunnah was.
>Finally, is anything that is judged Hadith or Sunnah a
>requirement for Moslems to emulate? For example .... you
>mentioned the Prophet's propensity for perfumes. Is that
>considered Sunnah? Is it considered something desirable for
>Moslems to emulate ... or even a requirement?
Some things we have to emulate.. like how muhammad pbuh prayed.. or fasted.. or believed in. These are things regarding our religion that make us who we are.. ie. muslims. There are other things. such as wearing perfume.. or how what he wore.. that we do not have to emulate.. but if we choose to that is not a problem. It makes no difference really one way or another. so one person is not a better muslim because they were yemeni wraps as clothing.. verses someone who might wear a suit.
I do hoped this helps a little.. i'm sure you have more questions. It all comes in time. seems your learning alot though
:)
well....I'll look for links to things which explains this further inshaAllah....
some stuff with authentic sources... maybe that would make things clearer to all of us inshaAllah... :)
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 08-04-02 AT 01:03 PM (GMT)]the reason i disagree with Nzingha a bit is that... well you make it sound as if sunnah is only for arab or something... however, it is part of islamic beliefs to follow the sunnah. EVERY MUSLIM must follow the sunnah to the best of his/her knowledge or ability.
Sunnah is not simply traditions of people and u cannot disregard it!
As for Hadith... MOST of hadith is a direct quotation of the prophet... some yes refers to what happened and is narrated by trust worthy narrators... the companions were able to actually quote the prophet word by word letter by letter and this is why their word was accepted for the narration of a direct quotation from hadith!
As i said i will find links to support this inshaAllah.... maybe other members can help us in clarifying things... i might be wrong... but this has been my understanding from my 2 year study in islam.
wassalamu alikom
Rasha
Proof of the importance of the Sunnah
(1) The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example:
(a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]
(b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63]
(c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65]
(d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .” [al-Anfaal 8:24]
(e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]
(2) The Sunnah itself indicates the importance of the Sunnah. For example:
(a) Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663).
Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’).
(b) Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah).
(3) The scholars’ consensus (ijmaa’) affirming the importance of the Sunnah.
Al-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah. Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant.
(4) Common sense indicates the importance of the Sunnah.
The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions.
The ruling concerning those who deny the importance of the Sunnah is that they are kaafirs, because they deny and reject a well-known and undeniable part of the religion.
(taken from islam-qa.com)
More on Sunnah... long but helpful
The Status of Sunnah in Islam
by Muhammad Nasir-ud-deen Al-Albaani.
Introduction
Praise be to Allah, Benediction and Peace be on the Messenger of Allah, his family, his companions, and his adherents.
This is a lecture which I delivered in the city of Doha, the capital of Qatar, in the blessed month of Ramadhan 1392 A.H. Some of my friends have suggested to me to publish my lecture on account of need of the Muslims to a work of its kind. In response to their request, I am printing it for general propagation on account of its advantage, having regard for the reminiscences and history. I have added some separate titles to assist the reader to collect the main ideas. I pray to Allah, the Mighty, the Glorious, to write me among those who defend the religion and those who help enact the law; and to reward me for it. Surely he is the most generous in responding to my prayer.
Damascus 22 Muharram-al-Haram 1394 A.H.
The Status of Sunnah in Islam
A Declaration that it cannot dispense with The Qur'an
All Praise be to Allah, we praise Him, seek His help and His forgiveness. We seek refuge in Allah from the evils of our souls and evils of our deeds. One whom Allah guides, none can lead him astray, and one whom He misguides, none can guide him. I bear witness that there is no god(1) but Allah, and I bear witness that Muhammad (SAW) is His servant and His messenger.
O you who believe. Fear Allah truly, and don't die except in a state of Islam (3:102).
O Men fear your Lord who created you from one soul, and created its partner, and from them spread men and women in numbers. Take care, Allah will question you about it and the kinship. Surely, Allah is ever watchful of your deeds (4:1).
O those who believe. Fear Allah and say what is correct so that it fits you. He will forgive your sins. Whoever obeys Allah and His messenger that is a great achievement (33:70-71).
The best of speech is the speech of Allah. That is The Book of Allah. The best of guidance is the guidance of Muhammad. Of all matters, the worst are innovations; and everything new is an innovation, and every innovation is a deviation, and every deviation leads to Hell-fire.
I do not think that I will be able to offer this high ranking assembly - especially when there are distinguished ulama (scholars) and professors present - some knowledge which has not been dealt with before. If what I think is true, I will rest contented that my address will be a reminder, as it says in the Qur'an Remind, for the reminder would benefit the believers (51:55).
I do not think that my talk in this blessed month of Ramadhan, the month of importance, is an exposition of something of its merits, rules and their practice, and the like, which generally the preachers and instructors touch on, on account of the benefit they give to the listeners, and procure for them good and blessing; but I have chosen my talk to be a study of a general nature, surely it is one of the roots of the Shari'ah (Islamic law). It is a declaration of the importance attached to the Sunnah in the Islamic law.
The Role of Sunnah Towards The Qur'an
You all know that Allah, The Blessed and Mighty, chose Muhammad (SAW) as His Prophet and picked him to deliver the final message. The Qur'an was revealed to him and commanded him to obey all what He had ordered him to do, that is, to expound His message to the people. Allah says, We have revealed to you the Reminder (The Qur'an) to expound to people what was revealed to them (16:44).
I think that the declaration mentioned in the verse contains two orders:
Declaration of the word and its arrangement. It is the communication of the Qur'an and its non-concealment, and its pursuit to Mankind just as Allah, The Blessed Almighty, has revealed to the heart of the Prophet (SAW) which is the intent of His saying O Messenger proclaim what is revealed to you from your Lord (5:67). Sayyida Ayesha (may Allah be pleased with her) is reported to have said "Whosoever says that Muhammad (SAW) concealed something which he was commanded to communicate, is is a great calumny against Allah." Then she read the abovementioned verse. (Bukhari and Muslim have stated it.)
And according to the narration of Muslim: "If the Messenger of Allah (SAW) had concealed something which he was commanded to communicate, he would have concealed the saying of The Almighty Behold thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favour: Keep your wife to yourself and fear Allah. But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest; you did fear the people, whereas Allah had a better right that you should fear Him (33:37).
The explanation of the meaning of the word or sentence or verse for which man needs an explanation, most of which bear reference to 'Mujmal' (comprehensive) verses or 'Amah' (general) verses or 'Mutlaq' (unbounded) verses.
Then comes the Sunnah and clarifies the sentences and specifies the verses called 'Amah' and defines what is 'mutlaq' that is, in refernce to the saying (Qaul) of The Prophet (SAW), his deed (Fi'l) and the act he confirmed (Iqrar).
The necessity of Sunnah to understand The Qur'an and Parables on that
Allah says The male thief and female thief cut off their hands (5:38) is a fitting example of that. The thief in it is general like the hand.
The oral tradition explains the first of them and restricts it by 'as-sareq' (the thief) who steals something worth a fourth of a Dinar(2) according to the saying of the Prophet (SAW) There is no cutting - of the hand - unless the thing stolen is worth a fourth of a Dinar or more (Bukari & Muslim) the two shaikhs have recorded this Hadeeth.
Again, the other is explained by the action of the Prophet (SAW) or the action of his companions and his confirmation. They used to cut the hand of the thief from the wrist as is known in the work of Hadeeth. The oral tradition explains the hand mentioned in the verse on Tayammum (dust ablution) And rub therewith your faces and hands (5:6) is also the palm of the hand as is stated in a Hadeeth Tayammum is the wiping of the face and the hands recorded by the two shaikhs and Ahmad and others from a tradition reported by Ammar bin Yasir (may Allah be pleased with them).
There are other verses that cannot be completely understood except through Sunnah. They are:
It is whose who believe and confuse not their beliefs with wrong, 'dhulm' that are (truly) in security for they are on (right) guidance (6:82).
The companions of the Prophet (SAW) understood the word 'dhulm' in its general sense to mean every wrong doing, even if it be little. On this account the verse is regarded as dubious and they said, "O Messenger of Allah, which of us did not involve his faith with obscurity?" He (SAW) said; It is not that. It is only the 'shirk'(3). Have you not heard what Luqman said: Verily, 'shirk' is a very great sin (dhulm) (31:13). The two shaikhs have recorded it with others.
Allah says: When you travel on earth, there is no blame on you to shorten your prayer, for fear the unbelievers will persecute you (4:101). It is obvious from this verse that fear is a pre-requisite for the shortening of prayers. Some of the Prophet's companions asked him: "Why do we shorten our prayers while we feel safe?" He said: It is a charity from Allah, so accept it (Muslim).
Allah says: The carcass and it's blood are forbidden to you (5:3). In explanation of this verse, the corpse of locusts, fish, the livers, spleen of blood are lawful. So the Prophet (SAW) said: He has made two dead things and blood lawful: the locusts and the fish, the liver and the spleen.
Baihaqi and others have recorded it as 'marfu' type of hadeeth as also 'mauquf' type. The 'isnad' od 'mauquf' is authentic and it is as good as 'marfu' tradition, since it is not stated in the form of a 'ra'y' (decision based on one individual's judgement not on Qur'an and Sunnah).
Allah says: I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any (food) forbidden to be taken by one who wishes to, unless it is dead meat or blood poured forth or the flesh of swine, for it is an abomination, or what is impious (meat) on which a name has been invoked other thatn Allah's (6:145).
The Sunnah has forbidden many things not mentioned in the verse mentioned above, as for example in the saying of the Holy Prophet (SAW): All predatory animals with tusk and every bird with claw are forbidden for consumption. There are other traditions which have forbidden the consumption of such animals as the Prophet (SAW) is reported to have said on the Day of Khayber: Allah and His Messenger have prohibited the consumption of domesticated asses, for they are filth. The two shaikhs have reported it.
Allah says: Who has forbidden the adornment of Allah which He has produced for His servants, and the things clean and pure (which he has provided for sustenance) (7:32).
The Sunnah, too, has forbidden some adornments, and this is evident from the Prophet (SAW) who is reported to have met some of his companions, and had a silk garment in one hand, and gold in the other, and said: These are prohibited to Muslim males, lawful to females. The hadeeths in their interpretation are many and well known in both the authentic collections of hadeeths, and others and the like of many examples well known to scholars familiar with hadeeth and Islamic Jurispudence.
From what has been stated above, O Muslim Brethren, you can see the importance attached to Sunnah in Islamic Law. When we divert our intention again to the exaples mentioned beside others not mentioned, we are certain that there is no way to understand the Qur'an correctly except in association with the interpretation of the Sunnah.
In the first example, the understanding of the 'sahabah' of 'dhulm' mentioned in the verse is on its general sense, despite the fact that the (Allah be pleased with them) were, as stated by Ibn Mas'ud: "The best of this community, most pious, profound in learning, least of dissimulation." Yet with all that they erred in their understanding of that.
Were it not for the Prophet (SAW), who held them back from their mistaken notion, and made them take the step in the right direction in that the correct meaning of 'dhulm' in the context is shirk (association of partnership with Allah), we too would have followed in their wrong thinking. Allah, The Blessed and The Most High saved us from that wrong notion by the grace of the right direction of the Prophet (SAW) and his Sunnah.
In the second example - with Allah's guidance - if not for the hadeeth mentioned above, we would have been in doubt at least with regard to the shortening of prayer (qasr-as-salat) during a journey while secure - if we did stipulate the condition of fear as obvious in the verse - till the companions saw the Prophet (SAW) shorten the prayers when it was safe and secure.
In the third example, if not for the hadeeth, we would have forbidden ourselves the consumption of good things made lawful to us: locusts, fish, liver, and the spleen.
In the fourth example, if not for the hadeeths, some of which we have mentioned, we would have considered lawful what Allah has made unlawful through the dictum of the holy Prophet (SAW) like predatory animals, and the birds which have claws.
And so in the fifth example, if not for the hadeeths in regard to this question, we would have considered lawful what Allah prohibited through the words of His Prophet (SAW) like gold and silk.
It is for this, some forbearers (as-salaf) say that 'Sunnah' pronounces judgement of The Book (al-Qur'an).
The Deviation of those who are satisfied with The Qur'an to the exclusion of Hadeeth
It is a matter of regret that according to the interpretation found in the works of some commentators and moders authors, that it is permissible to do what is stated in the last two examples: Consumption of the predatory animals and the waearing of gold and silk by referring their interpretation only to the Qur'an.
Today, a sect exists called "Quranites" who comment according to their whims and fancies; without seeking the explanation of the authentic Sunnah. They only accept and follow the Sunnah which suit their desires, the rest they throw behind. The Prophet (SAW) is reported to have said that: None of you reclines on his bed, the order comes to him on an affair which I am commanded to do or not to do. He says: "I don't know, what is found in The Book of Allah we follow" (Tirmithi). According to another report: What is found in The Book of Allah as 'Haram,' we pronounce it 'haram' (forbidden). Surely, I am given The Qur'an and its example with it. Yet, according to another report: What the Messenger of Allah has forbidden, Allah has prohibited it.
It is a matter of regret that one renowned scholar has written a book on Islamic law and its dogma, and in its preface, he says that he has written it and that he has made reference only to The Qur'an.
This true hadeeth gives positive evidence that the divine law of Islam - As-Shari'ah - is not merely Qur'an, but Qur'an and Sunnah. Therefore, whoever holds fast to one source for reference to the exclusion of the other, he held fast to neither of them, since both complement each other. The Qur'an says Whoever obeys the Messenger, obeys Allah. Allah says, No, by your Lord they do not believe until they submit to your adjucation in all disputes between them, then they do not find themselves oppressed with your decisions and they completely submit (4:65). Again, Allah says When a matter has been decided by Allah and His Messenger, it does not behove a believer, man or woman, to have choice in their matter. One who disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he is indeed on a clearly wrong Path (33:36). Furthermore, Allah says What the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it (59:7).
In connection with this verse, I am marvelled by what is corroborated by Ibn Mas'ud (Allah be pleased with him) that is, a woman came to him and told him, "You who says: May Allah's curse be on 'Al-Namisat' and 'Al-Motanamisat'(4) and those who tattoo." He said "Yes." She said, "I read the Book of Allah (Al-Qur'an) from beginning to its end. I did not find what you have said. He told her, "If you have read it, you would have found it. As for your reading what the Messenger teaches you, take it, and what he forbids you, avoid doing it." She said, "Certainly." He said, "I have heard the Messenger of Allah (SAW) say May Allah's Curse be on the Al-Namisat." (Bukhari and Muslim)
Inadequacy of Philology to understand The Qur'an
From what has been stated above, it is clear that there is no scope for anyone with all his Arabic Scholarship to understand the glorious Qur'an, without the help of the Sunnah of the Prophet (SAW), his sayings and actions.
The companions of the Prophet (SAW) were the most knowledgeable in the language, which The Qur'an was revealed in, when it was not blemished by the incorrectness of the common folks knowledge or their grammatical mistakes. Yet, they erred in understanding the verses quoted above when they relied on language alone.
It is self-evident that a man well-informed of the Sunnah is more appropriate to understand The Qur'an and deduce the rules from it than one who is ignorant of it. How can it be a source to one who does not reckon it and does not make reference to it?
For this reason, it is part of the rules agreed upon that Qur'an should be interpreted by the Qur'an itself as welll as the Sunnah, then by the sayings of the Sahabah... etc. (5)
It is here that the cause of deviation of scholastic theologians (Ahlu-el-Kalam) become clear, both ancient and modern, and their opposition to the forbears 'As-salaf' (May Allah be pleased with them) in their doctrines not to speak of their laws. They are far from Sunnah, and knowledge of it, and rely on their intelligence and desires to decide on the verses of attributes and others.
What is best is what was written down in the exposition of Tahawi's doctrine (page 212 Fourth Edition):
When one is not well-informed of The Book and Sunnah, what would he say about the Fundamentals of Religion (usulu-d-din)? He only receives the assertion of someone. If he says that he takes it from The Book of Allah, he does not study the commentary of The Qur'an on the basis of prophetic traditions, and reflects over it, nor what the companions (Sahabah), and the following generations narrated, which is transmitted to us from the authorities whom the critics chose. They have not transmitted the system and arrangement of The Qur'an, but its poetic expression and meaning. They did not learn the Qur'an like children, but studied it with meaning. One who does not follow in their footsteps, speaks on his own accord. One who does that thinks it be the religion of Allah, and does not study The Book of Allah, he sins, even if he is right.
One who studies The Qur'an and The Sunnah, he is rewarded, even if he goes wrong, but if he is right in his opinion, his reward is doubled. Then he says:
What is obligatory, is submission to the Messenger (SAW) carrying out his saying and accepting his saying with satisfaction and belief without contradicting it with false ideas called 'opprehensive faculty' (Ma'qul) bearing doubt or complaint, or offering the opinions of men and the garbage of their intellect. We unite with The Prophet (SAW) in judgement, submission, obedience and compliance, just as we have unison with Allah, glory be to Him, by worshipping Him by humility, submissiveness, repentance and reliance.
In short, what is obligatory on all MUslims is that they do not separate between Qur'an and Sunnah; whereas, it is obligatory to take both of them and to formulate the law on both of them.
This is a safeguard for them, so that they won't fall right or left; and that they won't fall back in error as explained by The Prophet (SAW): I leave behind me two things. You will never go astray if you hold fast to them: The Qur'an and my Sunnah.
CAUTION
It is self-evident after this that I say:
The Sunnah which has an important bearing on Islamic Law is only the Sunnah confirmed by scientific channels, and authentic chains of narrations known to the learned in regard to hadeeths and the background of the narrators.
It is not the one which is found in different works of Tafseers (commentaries of The Qur'an) and Islamic jurisprudence (fiqh), and in different writings of longing, intimidation, advices, and admonitions, etc...
They contain weak, spurious, and fabricated hadeeths, of which Islam absolves, like the story of 'Harut and Marut,' and the sotry of 'gharanik.' I have a special letter which makes it void and it is printed(6). A major part of it is recorded in two huge books namely "A chain of weak and fabricated hadeeths and their evil impact on the community." Their number upto date have reached approximately four thousand hadeeths(7).
It is obligatory on the learned, especially those who spread the knowledge of fiqh and legal opinions among the public, that they shouldn't dare to argue with hadeeth unless it is well-attested. Books of jurisprudence, which they refer to, are normally filled with traditions which are not well-attested, nor have any bases, as is well-known to the learned.
I have begun an important project, and I think it will be of use to those occupied with jurisprudence, and I will name it: "Weak and Fabricated Hadeeths in the Major Jurisprudence 'fiqh' Books," by which I mean:
Al-Hidayah, by Al-Marghinani, in Hanafi fiqh,
Al-Modawwanah, by Ibnil-Qasim, in Maliki fiqh,
Sharhul-wajeez, by Al-rafiee, in Shafiee fiqh,
Al-Mughni, by Ibn Quddamah, in Hanbali fiqh, and
Bidayatul Mujtahid, by Ibn Rushd-al-Andalusi, in comparative fiqh.
I regret that I did not get the opportunity to finish it, because the journal "Al-Wa'e-al-Islami" of Kuwait which promised to publish it, when perused it, didn't print it.
Although I missed this opportunity, perhaps I will succeed on another occasion, Allah willing, to offer to my bretheren occupied with jurisprudence a precise learned course to help them to facilitate their knowledge of the different categories of hadeeth with reference to various sources from books on hadeeth, with an explanation of its special nature and character and reliance on them. Allah is the source of success.
Weakness of Hadeeth of Muadh in the opinion And its disapproval
Before I conclude my talk, I think I must direct the attention of brethren present to a well known hadeeth. It is devoid of one of the books of jurisprudence on account of its weakness in respect of its chain of narration (isnad) and its contrdiction with what we have concluded in this talk, regarding the illegitimacy of discrimination in law between The Qur'an and Sunnah; and the necessity of taking both.
It is a hadeeth of Muadh bin Jabal (May Allah be pleased with him) that the Prophet (SAW) said to him when he sent hin to Yaman: By what source will you decide? He said, "By the book of Allah." He then asked, If you don't find any guidline? He said, "I will make an effort to form my own opinion." He said, Praise be to Allah who makes success the effort of the envoy of the Messenger of Allah, to what The Prophet likes.
As for the weakness of its 'isnad,' there is no scope for its explanation now. But I have explained it clearly in the above mentioned chain(8).
It would suffice now to mention that the Commander of the Believers in the hadeeth 'Imam Al-Bukhari' (may Allah have mercy on him) says that the hadeeth is not recognized (munkar). After this I am permitted to begin to explain the conflict which I pointed.
The tradition of Muadh gives the ruler a method of three stages which does not permit to search for any rule with regard to 'Ra'e' (personal opinion) except that he does not find it in the Sunnah, nor in the Sunnah, except that after he does not find it in The Qur'an. It is in relation to 'Ra'e' a genuine method with all the learned (ulama), so that they say, "Where there is a tradition relating the deeds and utterances of The Prophet (SAW), personal opinion is void." But in relation to Sunnah, it is not true, because Sunnah dictates The Qur'an and and clarifies its doctrines. It is then essential to search for a ruling in Sunnah, even if he thinks it is found in The Qur'an as we have mentioned it.
Sunnah is not with The Qur'an in the same manner as 'Ar-Ra'e' with the Sunnah. No, definitely not. It is rather necessary to regard the Qur'an and Sunnah as being one source with no discrimination between the two whatsoever. This is indicatied in a saying of the Prophet (SAW): Certainly I have come with The Qur'an and its like (meaning the Sunnah). He said They are never separated until they come to the Basin(9). The compilation mentioned between them is not correct because the separation between them is void as we have explained.
This is what I wish to draw attention to. If I am right, it is from Allah; if wrong, it is from me. I ask Allah Almighty to protect us and you from errors and from all that displeases him. I conclude my praising by "Al-Hamdu-lillahi rabbil-alameen" - Praise be to Allah, The Lord of the Worlds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Footnotes
i.e.: There is no true god - but Allah - who really deserves to be worshipped by Mankind
Dinar: A form of currency
Shirk is to disbelieve in the oneness of Allah, or to offer any form of worship to other than Allah.
Namisah: a woman who plucks hers or others eyebrows - to be a thin line - to seek beauty. Such an act is forbidden. It is a means to change the form of Allah's creation.
Motanamisah: a woman who asks others to do it for her.
This states other than what is known by many of the learned: to comment on The Qur'an itself if there is not any Sunnah, then by the Sunnah. This will be explained in at then end of this treatise on the hadeeth of Muadh bin Jabal - may Allah be pleased with him.
Its title is "Pitch of majaniq to demolish the story of gharaniq" printed by Al-Maktabul-e-Islami
Story of gharaniq: is a fabricated story found in some commentaries, claiming that a verse in The Qur'an acknowledged the polytheists in their beliefs.
The number at present [1394 A.H.] has exceeded five thousand and may Allah make easy its publication in the near future. So far only five hundred have broken into print.
No. 885 of the chain mentioned, and we hope that the volume which includes it will be published shortly, 'insha Allah.'
i.e. until the Day of Judgement.
The Arabic word Hadith literally means "communication, story, conversation; Religious or secular, historical or recent." Whenever used as an adjective, it means "new;" it occurs 23 times in the Qur'an in the sense of story or communication. According to scholars of Hadith, it stands for "what was transmitted on the authority of the Prophet, his deeds, sayings or tacit approval". Thus, Hadith literature means the literature which consists of the narration of the life of the Prophet and the things approved by him. However, the term was used sometimes in a much wider sense covering the narration about the Prophet's companions and their successors. Sunnah, according to Arabic lexicographers, means: "a way, course, rule, mode, or manner, of acting or conduct of life." In the Qur'an the word Sunnah and its plural have been used 16 times in the sense of an established course of rule, mode of life, and line of conduct. In Islamic history, the Arabic definite article "Al" was affixed to the word Sunnah in order to denote the Sunnah of the Prophet, while the general use of the word continued, though decreasing day by day. At the end of the second century, the word began to be used almost exclusively in the legal books to denote the norms set by the Prophet or the norms deduced from the Prophet's norm. The two words, Hadith and Sunnah soon began to be used interchangeably, though there is a slight difference between them. The science of Hadith was developed to evaluate every single statement ascribed to the Prophet. The aim of this branch of Islamic study is to make clear which Hadith is authentic and which is not. The scholars are unanimous that the authority of the Qur'an is binding on all Muslims. The authority of the Prophet comes next only to the Qur'an. His authority is not derived through the community's acceptance of the Prophet. It is Allah who has outlined the Prophet's position and his authority. It is expressed through divine will. Allah states in the Qur'an that He has sent down His revelations to the Prophet that he "may explain to mankind what has been revealed for them." Thus, the Prophet's task is to expound and explain the Qur'an to people. To give one example, the Qur'an commands us to attend regularly to our prayers, but does not tell us how to pray. It was the Prophet's task to demonstrate the form of prayer in word and practice. The Prophet also has been given a position with legislative powers. Allah describes him in the Qur'an in these words: "He (meaning the Prophet) will make lawful for them all good things and prohibit only foul things. He will relieve them of their burden and the fetters which had encumbered them." There are several examples of actions or practices initiated by the Prophet and later sanctioned by Allah. In his actions and practices, the Prophet provides a model to be followed by the Muslim community. All Muslims have to follow the Prophet's example in every way, particularly since they have been specifically commanded by Allah to do so. Allah states in the Qur'an that obedience to the Prophet is a duty required by all people. Numerous are the Qur'anic statements which require us to obey Allah and His messenger: "Believers, obey Allah and obey the messenger and those in authority among you." (4;59) Also: "Whatever the messenger gives you, take it; and whatever he forbids you, refrain from it." (59; 7) From these Qur'anic references we conclude that the Prophet's authority does not rest on acceptance by the community or on the opinion of certain lawyers or scholars, or the founders of the schools of thoughts. This point has been made absolutely clear in the Qur'an. For this reason, the Muslim community has accepted the authority of the Prophet from the beginning of his mission and has accepted all his verbal commands, deeds, tacit approval as the way of life, a binding duty and a model to be followed. All the Prophet's activities have been covered by the Sunnah which remains one of the main sources of Islamic law, second only to the Qur'an. From this summary of what Professor Azami has written, it is clear that following the Sunnah is part of our religion of Islam which cannot be disregarded. It is simply not possible for a Muslim to deny the Prophet's Sunnah and hope to win acceptance by Allah. That is because such disregard of the Sunnah flies in the face of clear and decisive Qur'anic orders requiring us to implement the Prophet's Sunnah. As Hadith and Sunnah were reported from one generation to another, there was bound to be some inaccuracies of reporting. In addition, people hostile to Islam started to fabricate statements and attribute them to the Prophet. Hence, scholars recognized that it was their duty to sort out the true from false in what is attributed to the Prophet. This has led to the establishment of the science of Hadith, which is a unique branch of Islamic study that has won the admiration of scholars throughout the world. Muslim scholars of Hadith studied the character and history of every person that has been known to report even a single Hadith and established whether he was a man of trust and honesty or not. If they found him trustworthy, truthful, accurate in his reporting, God-fearing, then they accepted what he has reported, provided that he had heard it from a similar trustworthy person. Thus we have a chain of transmitters for every Hadith. Each one of them must be of the highest caliber. Otherwise, the reported Hadith would be classified as weak, doubtful or false. Among those scholars of Hadith, Al-Bukhari and Muslim stand out as the most reliable and perfectionist in their work. The other four, At-Tirmithi, Abu Dawood, An-Nassaie and Ibn Majah occupy a position close to that of Al-Bukhari and Muslim. Hence, the compilations made by these six have acquired a higher status, since they include Hadiths of the highest authorities. However, there are many other scholars, some of whom lived earlier than these six , most notably Al-Shaf'ie, Malik and Ahmad ibn Hanbal who were also scholars of Hadith in addition to their eminencies as scholars of Fiqh or Islamic law. The last of these three, Imam Ahmad, was one of the greatest authorities on Hadith.
taken from islamcity.com
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 09-04-02 AT 00:01 AM (GMT)]Salam to all!
Joe> I think both sisters and our doctor (lol) have explained and have given various links to help you...
Now you asked about the difference between hadith and sunnah...i think sister 'n' got that right, she explained it in a good way, like the jesus example...!
Now this should help members here..!
.....................
Question: You often make a distinction between Hadith and Sunnah. What exactly is the difference between these two?
Answer: The word Hadith is often understood to be a synonym for the word Sunnah. This is not correct. There is a great difference between the two not only regarding the extent of their authenticity, but also their content. I’ll try to briefly explain the meaning of these terms.
A narrative of the words, deeds or tacit approvals of the Prophet (sws) is called Hadith. It does not add anything to the content of Islam stated in the Qur’an and Sunnah, the two original sources of Islam. Ahadith (plural of Hadith) only explain and elucidate what is contained in these two sources and also describe the exemplary way in which the Prophet (sws) followed Islam. The scholars of Hadith employ the term, Khabar for Hadith. A Khabar bears the possibility of being either right or wrong. In other words, the scholars of Hadith believe that a Khabar may be true or it may be false. For this very reason, the Ahadith are also called Zanni (presumptive or indefinite).
On the other hand, the word ‘Sunnah’ literally means ‘busy path’, ‘trodden path’, ‘beaten path’. As a term, it means the practices of the Prophet Abraham (sws) to which the Prophet Muhammad (sws) gave religious sanction among his followers after reviving and reforming them and after making certain additions to them. The Qur’an has directed the Prophet (sws) to obey these Abrahamic practices in the following words:
Then We revealed to you to follow the ways of Abraham, who was true in faith and was not among the polytheists. (16:123)
The following three aspects further bring out the difference between Hadith and Sunnah.
Firstly, while Ahadith can be inauthentic or spurious, the Sunnah cannot be so. The Sunnah is in fact as authentic as the Qur’an. This is because the difference in the nature of transmission. Ahadith have been transmitted by a few individuals and therefore become dependent on their character, memory and intellect – all of which can falter even if the person in question is very pious. On the other hand, the Sunnah has been transmitted by whole generations to the next. Such is the vast number of people who have adhered to certain practices that there is no possibility of any error. The memory, intellect and character of a few persons can falter but when thousands of people deliver the same thing, any faulty transmission is ruled out. Furthermore, not only have a large number of people transmitted these practices, but also there is a consensus in the Ummah regarding the authenticity of these practices. In other words, people not adhering to these practices also vouch for their veracity.
Secondly, Sunnah is purely related to the practical aspects of Islam such as the prayer, Hajj, Nikah Wudu Tayammum. Issues that pertain to belief, history, occasion of revelation and explanation of Qur’anic verses lie outside its domain. On the other hand, Ahadith are not confined to a certain sphere of Islam. Its contents range from the practical issues of religion to intellectual ones and from historical episodes to explanation of the Qur’an and of the Sunnah itself.
Thirdly, the Sunnah is not based on Ahadith. For instance, we have not adopted the prayers, pilgrimage, etc in all their details because a few narrators explained them to us, but we have adopted them because every person in our surrounding is either adhering to it or vouching for its veracity. In other words, Sunnah is an entirely independent source of Islam. However some Ahadith may contain a record of the Sunnah just as they may contain the record and explanation of certain verses of the Qur’an. But just as having a record of the Qur’an does not make Ahadith the same as the Qur’an, having a record of the Sunnah does not make Ahadith equivalent to the Sunnah.
Sadiq
Salam to all!
Before i depart again!!
Just want to give this link....i wanted to post the questions and answers, quite interesting answers and the site in general is very good to view...!
But the shortage of time and space, i would advise everyone who is following this thread to view the link and view the articles...
Its good! And the site has very interesting answers!!
The link> http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/references.jsp?subsubcat=386&subcat=28&cat=2&display=on
Take a look..and have a healthy discussion...!
this is interesting... br. Sadiq and sis Nzingha... I guess this gives me a new project to set on searching for... to find out really what Hadith and sunnah ACTUALLY means.....
hmm..... I guess i need a mighty project once my exams are done to really fix my belief here....
Jazakom Allah khair both.... :)
We are all on the same journey.... each need to prepare his provision... :)
mine needs some more things to load up inshaAllah...
salam for now... :)
Muslims....
Assalamu alikom...
Ok... :) seems like I need a teacher today... Just want to make sure i got things right...
I've done some readings today... read the posts by Br. Sadiq, re-read sis Nzingha's posts again.... and done more readings.... here is what i understood... please correct me if i am wrong...
1. sunnah is how the prophet implemented islam.
2. hadith is what people said that happened or what they said the prophet said (but they didn't always quote exact words and this is why sunnah is less than quraan besides that it is not word of god but guidance from God)
3. hadith is correct so long as it doesn't contradict with quraan or sunnah.
4. sunnah holds a higher priority than hadith??!!
am i right or am i still confused....?
sorry your sister in faith needs help! I was going to delay this search till i'm done exams but... i can't help it.. it keeps playing in my mind that i need to learn this and i can't even look at chemistry if i dont' find out... so this is why i came back and done more reading....
:)
waiting for the reply.... jazakom Allah khair
>the reason i disagree with Nzingha a bit is that... well you
>make it sound as if sunnah is only for arab or something...
>however, it is part of islamic beliefs to follow the sunnah.
>EVERY MUSLIM must follow the sunnah to the best of his/her
>knowledge or ability.
>
>Sunnah is not simply traditions of people and u cannot
>disregard it! >>
as salaam alaikum
No sunnah is not only arab or something. Sunnah takes on different forms. One of which is customs or traditions of people.. any people not Just muhammad pbuh. These customs can include those of arabs.. or not.
The Sunnah of Muhammad pbuh will fall in two main catagories.. the religious and non religious. What is non religious we don't have to follow. Waht is religious we do. However he was an Arab sister, and some of his non religious customs will reflect an arab custom which makes it no better or worse than other customs.
Jazaky Allah khair sis....
:)
yea i understand now...sorry for sometimes being stupid :)
umm... have u read my last post where i asked if i got it right now? I really would like to know if i finally got it straight (difference between Sunnah and hadith)
Jazaky Allah khair sis
as salaam alaikum
You weren't being stupid at all.. we are all in a learning process :)
Yes I just read that post, it seems you got the basics down. There are some good resources out there on ahadith and sunnah.
ma salaam
Jazaky Allah khair sis...
yea i will keep learning on the issue but... i usually won't rest till i know that i atleast understand basics...
:) we are all learning.... I just wish i can have more time to read more of the books at home :) maybe then i'd understand things more.
Rasha,
I am busy trying to follow all the conversation, reading websites and downloads .... and my head is spinning :). But I did want to tell you that I have found several Moslem contacts fairly close to where I live. Each are about an hour's drive, and I hope to establish relationship with them. Thanks for your references.
All of the posts have been interesting, and I no longer feel like a "dummy" about hadith and sunnah :) .... I see I'm not alone in wondering how to manage them. It seems the trick is to be able to separate the "should" from the "could". It reminds me a bit of the Jewish faith .... knowing there are 613 laws, and having Mishnah, Gemara, Talmud and Midrash to explain them .... one needs to be very dedicated to study in order to be correct. I get the impression that most who have posted in this discussion are indeed dedicated students of their faith ... and I'm fortunate to be able to receive from all of you. Thank you all for your willingness to respond!
You asked about my checking the links you and others provided to the Quran. I have gone to every link recommended and found many (too many, perhaps :) ) interesting items, not least of all is the site which contains three translations together. Very interesting! I'm amazed at the amount of information at some of these sites .... lots of good work there.
I don't suppose this is a good time to step onto another path .... Islamic law. But perhaps you could briefly touch on something I'm not able to sort out on my own. Is all of Islamic law codified? By that I mean, is all that is found in the Quran, hadith, sunnah and perhaps even ijmaa, which is incumbent upon all Moslems to obey, compiled into one document for all to follow? I assume by the time Mohammed died, he had a system of law well under way, and his successors continued to add to it as they uncovered more of his life and statements. I'm mainly wondering if, today, it's all in one place as "law".
One last item .... I wonder if I am burdening you, since you sound like a student with much school work to be done? You have such lengthy posts and provide so much information that I almost hate to ask another question. Let me know if I should direct these questions to others .... so you can concentrate on studies, or get some sleep :).
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 10-04-02 AT 02:09 PM (GMT)]Hello Joe...
I am glad u are still around and reading. Keep reading. We don't expect u to read all these sites... I haven't read them all myself... (i'm on my way .. trying). Well I personally have them in my favourite, i read few every day. I have made a site (yahoogroup) where i send one email per day thus forcing myself and others who join to read an article a day. This way we keep on learning gradually... islam wasn't revealed overnight... it took 23 years to establish the rules... thus... we keep trying our best. We are told that Allah asks from us only to put our best effort, meet His commands as much as possible and He shall forgive us, and grant us success. But we must do our best to obey Him.
I am glad u found some muslim contacts... maybe u can tell us what their names are so we can check the sites out :) Make sure u don't go into sects or something... stick to main stream.
Don't worry... if u didn't understand something in Islam, chances are there are many like u. We all are in a journey like sis Nzingha said... we keep learning as we go. Yes the trick is to know what you should do and what u could... I think however the scholars have done their best to clasify things as to what is a must and what is a recommended act.
"I get the impression that most who have posted in this discussion are indeed dedicated students of their faith"
I believe all of us here are students of faith yes..what else would bring us out here and make us keep up with all this discussions :)This is what makes a muslim... a muslim is a student till he dies.. islam is a way of life and thus we continue learning till the end... you can never learn all the rules... u can always do ur best to try and learn them... and this is why Allah said, the reward is based on how much work u do.... are u doing ur best? this is the question we need to ask ourselves.
but beside that... we find enjoyment (well speaking of myself). I love sites that discuss islam, teaches islam... most of us i believe find it very satisfying learning more on our faith.
I am glad u liked the links.... well... take ur time... don't rush things... keep learning and inshaAllah (Allah's willing) you will get an understanding of things.
I think its ok for u to ask on any other issue as u go along. U can't possible stick to one section (hadith or something) and just do that... Islam is a complete system which is also interrelated.. u can't separate it into pieces.
From my understanding, yes Islamic law is codified. Everything that we believe to be islamic is either in Quraan, Sunnah, hadith or the scholars have decided upon by Ijma'a. very few issues come up which are new, and thus the scholars of today do ijtihad (kind of like ijma'a but i don't personally know the difference) and issue a fatwa (ruling) on it... based on similar issues which are already codified. These laws are usually in books. Laws do not get changed. The only time they did was during the life of the prophet but now islam is completed and finalized.
Books like Bukhari and Muslim contain all sort of hadith which are sahih (to be followed...like.. trusty) and they relate to all sort of topics ranging from what we have to do to what we are taught about hereafter etc.
there are also books of fiqh.. these books contain things that we must do. A particular book called Fiqh as-sunnah is a book which almost all muslims have, and it has things like: What to do in such and such situation.
so yes, almost all islamic laws are codified (especially those of previous generations).
Allah said in the Quraan: This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islám as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
This was the last verse revealed to prophet mohammad peace be upon him before he died. Thus you can see God has perfect the faith and completed it. We have everything we need.
Before the death of prophet mohammad peace be upon him, the quraan was already written down and checked so that to ensure it is exact. After his death, the companions proceeded to write down all his actions, his life events, his saying etc as to make sure they do not forget or lose these teachings. If u are interested in this i can look up some articles on that for u.
Is it in one place?? hmm.... I can usually find all i need in Fiqh As-Sunnah! Its like my number one resource after the Quraan. It is a series of three books, which i think has almost all the laws we need. Add to it the Quraan and Bukhari and Muslim... you got a complete system that will keep u well off I believe. The main source is Quraan... this is the law...and the rest (sunnah and hadith) are secondary.
As for being a studen.... i love nothing more than to stop studying and come learn islam ;)
dont' worry i do like helping out... hmm... do u want me to make the posts shorter?? School work, i have exams now.. we'll be done soon and then i'm off school till Sept. So do'nt worry about it. Sleep... well I sleep enough.... studies as i said are fine don't worry about them... You can ask others if u wish... I enjoy hearing everyone thoughts on topics.. I learn a lot too
Best of luck... keep asking we don't mind :)
Sadiq,
I see I neglected to thank you for the information about sunnah and hadith .... my apologies.
I'm sure I do not understand all of the relationship yet, but it's beginning to come into focus. Thanks for the help.
Would you mind giving me some insight to the parenthetical remarks made when the name or title of Mohammed is written? I have read some concerning this, but there seems to be conflict over the proper method ... one commentator, for instance, claims that "pbuh" is not a proper phrase. I would be interested in your opinion .... and that of anyone who would care to comment.
Rasha,
>hmm... do u want me to make the posts shorter??<
Not at all .... I was just concerned that perhaps you were having to go into such detail for me. But I see from other topics that your style is to be thorough with all. Great!!
>... we can check the sites out <
Thanks for the offer but I enjoy hearing all views. Your advice to stick with the mainstream has merit when it comes time to choose reliable sources, but I like to gather in the net initially and see what's there.
>...you can never learn all the rules<
Are you speaking hyperbole here, or do you really mean there are so many rules that a Moslem can not hope to learn them all in a lifetime?
>... the scholars of today do ijtihad ... and issue a fatwa (ruling) on it<
Several questions here ... do scholars have party bias such as Sunni, Shia, etc.? In other words, do the Sunni believers have scholars who issue rulings to Sunnis, and Shee'ah scholars to Shias? Same type of inquiry concerning the codified laws ... does each group have their own book of law?
>Laws do not get changed. The only time they did was during the life of the prophet but now islam is completed and finalized.<
Segue back to Mohammed :). I understand he received correction at times during the reception of the Quran. It is also my understanding that the Quran is compiled according to the length of the sura. Do you know of a work which compiles the suras according to the order received? It would seem that knowing the order received might be benifical to study. I know when I read the Christian gospels in a chronological and comparative order, they seem to be more meaningful.
Having never seen the Quran in any other order than the sized format, and anticipating your reply to the above question being a "no" :) .... would rearranging the suras be considered a violation? And while I'm speaking of "violations" .... do Moslems use the term "sin", and if so, how?
Just an observation, and compliment .... I have been doing some looking around at other topics (not much, but some) and I noticed an absence of the term "xtian". It seems to be a favorite label for Christians at other non-Christian forums, and it's truancy here speaks well for your collective manners. As a Christian, I appreciate that. Thanks!
Hey Joe....
I am glad u like the posts... will try my best... whatever is good is from Allah, and whatever is bad is only from me and Satan.
As for learning all views.... sure... nothing wrong with it... :) I have trust that if u were to choose a faith, u would find nothing more reliable to follow in islam other than main streem.... i personally believe the other people who are born into another sect simply do not follow main streem because like some christians they do'nt want to check truth. I have a friend who was a shia.... and when she married, her husband was a sunni.... she said when she listened to his beliefs etc... she converted to Sunni. So... well as a student of islam, i looked into other sects for sake of knowing what i like better... i personally find some too extreme, others too unrealistic, and others yet too confusing....
= )
hope u find however the correct info... i just hope the sites make clear what sect are they, that's all. I do'nt want u to get the wrong info thinking this is the main streem or something. :) that's all.
as for the rules.... hmm.... I believe for a man to gain all the knowledge in islam as a faith, to learn the quraan, learn how to practice it, memorize it, learn the hadith, understanding it, and the history, and the stories of the companions, the traditions of the propohet... how they lived, acted, thought...and to put all that into practice would take a life time!! It is not easy and needs lots of dedication.... however we are told that the muslim puts his best effort, and then has hope in Allah's mercy.... a muslim is in constant search for knowledge... we learn something...practice it, then learn something new... and practice it. There are lots of small things, the other day i sent out our regular email (tip of the day) and it was about etiquites of wearing shoes!!!!! Simple things like this... everyone can do.... however not all of us know... so if u learn something new everyday.... and keep on learning.. that would be all u need.
I do not know if the rules are really too much with the right amount of dedication. Allah knows best. However, i know its not impossible because the companions of the prophet set the best example of practicing it. There is a book, which i can find u and u can order it online, which speaks of the life of Umar ibn al khattab, a very very very well known companion.... the second khaleefa (i.e. leader) in islam after the prophet and Abu Bakr, and the book just kept me amazed for week..... that man was a miracle! So if he can do it... we can too... but the difference is.. he had dedication, we lack that! You might think we have dedication... but if u read that book.. u'll know how little effort we really put.
As for scholars... party bias... ok... well i think it is because... some sects do'nt folow hadith! Some sects don't believe in the prophet just the quraan, etc... and since sunni (the main streem which is what i follow) believe in the quraan and sunnah, and hadith... when the scholars need to issue a fatwa... they need to use all these sources... whereas another sect will only use Quraan... this might not make lots of differences..... but it certainly will affect how u understand islam and the quraan.
as i said, sunnis follow the way the prophet did things... so we have almost all rulings set for us since the time of the prophet... there are some sects who believe these rulings were valid only for the prophet's time etc... so they set their new rules.... and thus we have sunni scholars, shia' scholars... etc.
The books of law is as i said the Quraan and that one is same for everyone... some deviated sects change it.. however we believe no one is allowed because this is from God and not ours. Sunnah as i mentioned, depends on the sect.
Ok now back to our beloved prophet mohammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). He did recieve correction yes during the reception of Quraan.... and the Quraan is not compiled according to length.... most of the long chapters are at the beginning... but later on if u go on reading... u will see short and long in the middle.... however what makes it seem like this is b/c we have the long chapters at beginning, the short at end...
The quraan i understand (muslims correct me if i'm wrong) was organized this way during the time of the prophet. So I am sure it had a reason to be put in this mannner. We are not allowed to play with the quraan and thus there aren't any quraan where it is organized in order... simply because that will mess up the whole chapters.... sometimes verses of chapters were revealed, then another chapter, then continuation of the first... so ... it won't make sense to break it apart.
I'd be interested to see if there are any which are organized in order they are received, however i doubt it...its impossible i think (maybe more like not allowed).
I think with the quraan you don't need to learn order.... Allah wanted his book organized in this fashion... so it will be this way. :)
:) so yes rearranging anything would be violation.... and yes we use the term sin :) in arabic "Saye'a". But more we use the term haram to say it is not allowed... so if u want to re arrange the quraan i'd say to you... its Haram, which means commiting it is a sin. If you do commit a sin, we would say, you gained a sin or a saye'a. Its not exactly this way but i usually tell people...think of it like 2 books, one for good and one for bad...whenever u do good, u get 10 check points (in islam we call these Hasanat - which translates to good things, we are also told each good deed is rewarded by a checkpoint, and each check point is 10 times!) and if u do something which is a sin, you gain a saye'a (one only this time - the mercy of the Lord of this universe). think of gaining a saye'a like getting an X in ur bad record book... how do u erase ur X's.... do more check marks... Allah said if u do a bad, and follow it by good your erase the bad. One of the khateeb's (people who give sermons) said once during friday sermon... when u do something bad, the angels do not write an "X" right away... they give u 8 hours... if u repent, or do good during these 8 hours, they are erased, and if u don't then they write it down... just to give us a chance to repent.
I also heard once in a sermon that when our deeds are given to Allah on a daily basis... Allah looks at the top and bottom... if they have remembrance, then what is between is forgiven (i.e. erased).
xtians... i would think it means christians... I don't use it.. so not 100% sure. Muslims who follow the prophet would know that we must treate others like we want to be treated... i get offended when people call me Mohammadiam or Muzlem or what not... it makes me upset... so .. I personally would rather call the christians either christiands or people of the book like the Quraan addresses them. :) I do believe all my muslim brothers too have learned to respect other beliefs!
:)
hope my "essay" has helped answer some of ur question... :) if u got more... don't hesitate to ask... and don't worry with Allah's help i can manage my time. Best of luck, keep up the knowledge gaining...
The prophet peace be upon him said, whenever a muslims walks in a path to gain knowledge, then Alalh opens a path to paradise for him... knowledge is very important in islam... that's why we emphasize it a lot.
;)
later
>Muslims....
>
>Assalamu alikom...
>
>Ok... :) seems like I need a teacher today... Just want to
>make sure i got things right...
>
>I've done some readings today... read the posts by Br.
>Sadiq, re-read sis Nzingha's posts again.... and done more
>readings.... here is what i understood... please correct me
>if i am wrong...
>
>1. sunnah is how the prophet implemented islam.
>2. hadith is what people said that happened or what they
>said the prophet said (but they didn't always quote exact
>words and this is why sunnah is less than quraan besides
>that it is not word of god but guidance from God)
>3. hadith is correct so long as it doesn't contradict with
>quraan or sunnah.
>4. sunnah holds a higher priority than hadith??!!
>
>am i right or am i still confused....?
No dear sister, you have said the 'truth'! The thing to remember is that, its like a book, a topic such as 'football', there is a way to do it, right?...that is what is called sunnah! The words describing the topic, how or what to do is regarded as hadith...so both are needed, but sunnah is higher than hadith!!
If i am saying something wrong, then please do correct me, anyone!!
>sorry your sister in faith needs help! I was going to delay
>this search till i'm done exams but... i can't help it.. it
>keeps playing in my mind that i need to learn this and i
>can't even look at chemistry if i dont' find out... so this
>is why i came back and done more reading....
There is nothing wrong in reading!! Read and Read as those were the first words revealed! But most men, forgot the second part, to glorify and to consider the one who created them and gave them ability to read and write...!
First, finish your exams...and work then...carry on..you cannot hold two melons on one hand...and they are quite big!!
SadiQ!
Salam to all!
>Sadiq,
>
>I see I neglected to thank you for the information about
>sunnah and hadith .... my apologies.
Dont worry! I am gratful that i have islam, such a beautiful fruit, should i not share it with all!?
>I'm sure I do not understand all of the relationship yet,
>but it's beginning to come into focus. Thanks for the help.
Its easy! I would like you to find a scholar, who will be able to help you more, you can write and type, but speach is the best way...! Find a scholar and ask him! and get to know the muslims, if there are any in your area!
>Would you mind giving me some insight to the parenthetical
>remarks made when the name or title of Mohammed is written?
Ill try!
>I have read some concerning this, but there seems to be
>conflict over the proper method ... one commentator, for
>instance, claims that "pbuh" is not a proper phrase. I would
>be interested in your opinion .... and that of anyone who
>would care to comment.
There is not a 'conflict'! Many commentators have said, 'pbuh' is one way to show our respect and our love to the dear prophet as it means, 'peace be upon him', many have said, this is used with other prophets too.
The other opinon is to say, 'saws' meaning 'sallallahu 'alaihi wa sallam' which in english is 'peace and greetings be upon him', so this is special to him, as he was the most 'loved' by allah and he was the last and seal of the prophets!
I found this below, quite interesting...!
James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.
"No other religion in history spread so rapidly as Islam. The West has widely believed that this surge of religion was made possible by the sword. But no modern scholar accepts this idea, and the Qur’an is explicit in the support of the freedom of conscience."
"Muhammad, the inspired man who founded Islam, was born about A.D. 570 into an Arabian tribe that worshiped idols. Orphaned at birth, he was always particularly solicitous of the poor and needy, the widow and the orphan, the slave and the downtrodden. At twenty he was already a successful businessman, and soon became director of camel caravans for a wealthy widow. When he reached twenty-five his employer recognizing his merit, proposed marriage. Even though she was fifteen years older, he married her and as long as she lived remained a devoted husband."
“Like almost every major prophet before him, Muhammad fought shy of serving as the transmitter of God’s word sensing his own inadequacy. But the Angel commanded ‘Read’. So far as we know, Muhammad was unable to read or write, but he began to dictate those inspired words which would soon revolutionize a large segment of the earth: "There is one God"."
“In all things Muhammad was profoundly practical. When his beloved son Ibrahim died, an eclipse occurred and rumors of God 's personal condolence quickly arose. Whereupon Muhammad is said to have announced, ‘An eclipse is a phenomenon of nature. It is foolish to attribute such things to the death or birth of a human being'."
“At Muhammad's own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you Worshiped, He lives for ever'.”
Sadiq!
Salam to all!
Joe and fellow members, for more info to those who reject the sunnah or hadith!
This book should help;
Imam Shafis Risalah, it can be found in any book shop!, this book enlightens all those who reject hadith must be considered outside the fold of islam...submitters, should read this..!
Read this verse, compared to many, if you believe in the quran only! What about these verses;
"If you love Allah, follow me, and Allah will love you, and forgive your sins. Allah is All-Forgiving, Alla-Merciful. Say : Obey Allah and the Messenger. But if they turn away Allah loves not the disbelievers (kaafireen). [Soorah Aali 'Imraan Aayatain 31 - 32]"
"And the prophets were formerly sent to their people only, whereas I have been sent to all mankind. [Al-Bukhaari and Muslim]"
"I have been indeed been given the Qur'aan and something like it along with it. [Abu Dawood]"
Hope this helps those who 'dont' think that an orange is only completed with the outside layer, what about the inside? both are needed to make it a orange!
Islam is complete with the word of allah and the beautiful and excellent example of the blessed prophet!
SadiQ!
lol...
salam alikom Sadiq..
Jazak Allah khair....
since i got it ok i don't want to consider ur football example..in confuses me more...
as for studying... .its hard these days... i'm trying to study i have exams .... but with what is going on back in palestine...and my need to be with Allah, praying and making du'a... its quite hard... but i'm trying...
and what made me laugh is holding two mellons in one hand...lol... i guess i am trying to do that :) will try harder ;)
beautifully said akhee...
Dr Qaisar
13-04-2002, 03:37
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 13-04-02 AT 02:40 AM (GMT)]Greetings, Joe
Good to know you have been reading about Islam. I will just touch briefly upon some of the questions you have asked as most have already been answered here.
>Is all of
>Islamic law codified? By that I mean, is all that is found
>in the Quran, hadith, sunnah and perhaps even ijmaa, which
>is incumbent upon all Moslems to obey, compiled into one
>document for all to follow? I assume by the time Mohammed
>died, he had a system of law well under way, and his
>successors continued to add to it as they uncovered more of
>his life and statements. I'm mainly wondering if, today,
>it's all in one place as "law".
Essentially, all the basic laws of Islam have been codified and have been set out in what has come to be known as the "Sharia" ( which approximately means 'Law'). But this is not in the form of a bound book, like the Constitution of a country. The Islamic 'Sharia' is akin to the Law of Prophet Moses (PBUH; see below). Though the Law of Prophet Moses (PBUH) bears his name but in fact it was the Law of God (Allah) in the form of the Ten Commandments. The primary source of the Sharia is the Qur'an, the last Revelation to mankind and the last Book of God (Allah) supplemented by the Prophet's Sunnah. Just like the Ten Commandments (which are actually re-promulgated in the Qur'an), the Commandments contained in the Qur'an set out as the basic laws to govern our lives are, in fact, quite few in number (compared to the 613 laws you have mentioned in the OT or Bible) and most simple to follow!!
">Would you mind giving me some insight to the parenthetical remarks >made when the name or title of Mohammed is written? I have read some >concerning this, but there seems to be conflict over the proper >method ... one commentator, for instance, claims that "pbuh" is not >a proper phrase. I would be interested in your opinion .... and that >of anyone who would care to comment."
The parenthetical remarks after the name of the Prophet, peace be upon him, PBUH, is an approximate transalation of the original in Arabic, as mentioned by Bro.Sadiq, though, a better way of saying it in English would be..."Peace AND Blessings of Allah be upon him". Conveying salutations on the Prophet Mohammad is a Command of God (Allah) whenever we take or hear the name of the beloved Prophet of God. As a rule, it is always better to say so in the original Arabic because any translation of the expression as also with the translation of the verses of the Qur'an itself, does not recreate the original essence & meaning. In this respect the above commentator is quite right in expressing his views about "PBUH", though, it is commonly used for reasons of simplicity & ease when conversing or writing in English.
">Several questions here ... do scholars have party bias such as >Sunni, Shia, etc.? In other words, do the Sunni believers have >scholars who issue rulings to Sunnis, and Shee'ah scholars to Shias? >Same type of inquiry concerning the codified laws ... does each >group have their own book of law?"
It won't be appropriate to say that the scholars will have any bias simply because the scholars would have expertise in their own field of study. Technically, there are no differences with respect to the Qur'an per say between the two groups, though, some differences remain in the manner of interpretation of some verses. But the Shias do have their own books of Hadith so a scholar of Shia sect would be qualified to issue rulings pertaining to the Shias which may not be acceptable to the other group. Nevertheless, the basic codification of laws ie. the Sharia is the same for all Muslims. There simply cannot be TWO books of laws because the basic set of laws HAVE to come from the same source, God (Allah)!!! So either you accept & follow the Laws of God or you don't, in other words, you are either a Muslim or not!!
">Segue back to Mohammed . I understand he received correction at >times during the reception of the Quran. It is also my understanding >that the Quran is compiled according to the length of the sura. Do >you know of a work which compiles the suras according to the order >received? It would seem that knowing the order received might be >benifical to study. I know when I read the Christian gospels in a >chronological and comparative order, they seem to be more meaningful."
No, the Qur'an is neither compiled according to the length of the suras nor chronologically. But the sequence of the ordering does, indeed, follow a definite purpose which one learns to appreciate & understand with a detailed study of the Qur'an. The ordering and compilation of the Qur'an was completed during the Prophet's (PBUH) lifetime and under his instruction which ultimately came from God (Allah)!! The Qur'an is the Book of God (Allah) and not ours to re-arrange it. Unlike the Gospels, the Qur'an is not a work but a direct Revelation, therefore, no Qur'an exists except in the order as it is present. Every word, verse, sura and even the manner of its compilation is from God.
">Having never seen the Quran in any other order than the sized >format, and anticipating your reply to the above question being >a "no" .... would rearranging the suras be considered a violation?"
It certainly would be a violation!! But the rearrangement is simply impossible for another good reason; the exact dates or years of most of the verses or suras is not known. Only a very few can be related to particular years or events during the Prophet's lifetime.
Dr.Qaisar
Assalamu alikom Dr. Qaisar...
you said in ur post: "But the sequence of the ordering does, indeed, follow a definite purpose which one learns to appreciate & understand with a detailed study of the Qur'an."
Do you mind explaining more... it is just intersting as i personally have not yet studied the Quraan so much in details... (still getting there) but.... what exactly did u mean by the purpose of the ordering... any particular example??! I can tell why Fatiha is in the beginning... i have studied that much... any other examples u can think of akhee?
Jazak Allah khair
Dr Qaisar
13-04-2002, 05:02
All Praise be to Allah who sent down the 'Furqaan' (criteria).
Wa-alaikumus-salaam, Sis.Rasha
>you said in ur post: "But the sequence of the ordering does,
>indeed, follow a definite purpose which one learns to
>appreciate & understand with a detailed study of the
>Qur'an."
>
>Do you mind explaining more... it is just intersting as i
>personally have not yet studied the Quraan so much in
>details... (still getting there) but.... what exactly did u
>mean by the purpose of the ordering... any particular
>example??! I can tell why Fatiha is in the beginning... i
>have studied that much... any other examples u can think of
>akhee?
>
>Jazak Allah khair
Yes, indeed, there is a purpose behind the ordering of the Suras. But before that, what is the purpose of the Qur'an itself?? As every Muslim knows, it is to guide mankind to the worship of Allah and to live our lives according to the instructions of our Creator. If one were to summarise the whole Qur'an into a few verses, then Alhamdulillah, the sura Fatiha would do just that. That's why its in the beginning. Having guided one to the worship of our Creator, Allah, how do we worship Him and follow His guidance and live our lives according to the instructions of Allah?? Well, we read the next suras of the Qur'an ie. Sura Bakarah, S. Aali-Imran, S. Nisa and implement them in our lives. The entire set of instructions governing the Islamic way of life are set out most comprehensively & concisely in these Suras, Mashaa-Allah. In just the first 4 suras of the Qur'an, the purpose of the Qur'an as a general Guidance to mankind is beautifully fulfilled. Other suras are simply a repeated reminder of the need to worship Allah alone, to praise Him, to Glorify Him constantly or an account of the past history of earlier nations and how we are to learn lessons from them etc.
A lot of the short Meccan suras towards the end of the Qur'an were directly addressed to the Prophet (PBUH) at the time of early Revelation, some describing the qualities of Allah as the sole Creator, the All-knowing, the All-Hearing, the Most Merciful etc. or they were an exhortation to the Prophet (PBUH) how to convey the message to the pagan Qureish and to hold steadfast to the rope of Allah and bear the pain & hardships with patience and perseverence. Though, these are in themselves Guidance to mankind thru the Prophet, they do not deal with the questions of day to day aspects of our lives ie. how to conduct ourselves within the family, community or as a single brotherhood or how to organise ourselves as a society and conduct our affairs. Thus, their ordering in the last. I hope you get the basic idea now.
Wa-salaam,
Dr.Qaisar
:)
Assalamu alikom... Amazing... so true... I did'nt notice that till u mentioned it....
Jazak Allah khair :)
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 13-04-02 AT 01:28 PM (GMT)]Peace to all members!
Been away for some time....and i will go away again for some other reason.
To find out more about the prophet, i will recommend this book, it can be found in local islamic book shops, its called;
.................
SHAMAAIL-e-TIRMIZI
By Hazrat Moulana Muhammad Zakariyya(R.A.)
.................
The book is available online too, i found a link that caters the book, the complete book, with all the chapters, but it will be wiser to purchase the book! Better for reading when not online...!
> http://alislaah2.tripod.com/tirmizi/index.html
BinZiad!
This is from the laughing chapter, quite intersting, with commentary too;
"..Jabir ibn Abdullah radiyallahu anhu says, After I accepted Islam, Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam never prohibited me from attending his assemblies. Whenever he saw me he laughed.
In the second narration it is stated that he smiled.
Commentary
The second narration is mentioned because it may be known that by laughing as mentioned in the first hadith, it is meant that Sayyidina Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihe wasallam smiled. This smile is to show happiness, as to meet one cheerfully makes one feel at ease. I have observed that my elders at times met visitors with such happiness and cheerfulness that the visitor may feel that happiness is being felt by our coming....."
Read and find out about the greatest man to walk on this earth!
>All Praise be to Allah who sent down the 'Furqaan'
>(criteria).
>
>
>Wa-alaikumus-salaam, Sis.Rasha
>
>
>>you said in ur post: "But the sequence of the ordering does,
>>indeed, follow a definite purpose which one learns to
>>appreciate & understand with a detailed study of the
>>Qur'an."
>>
>>Do you mind explaining more... it is just intersting as i
>>personally have not yet studied the Quraan so much in
>>details... (still getting there) but.... what exactly did u
>>mean by the purpose of the ordering... any particular
>>example??! I can tell why Fatiha is in the beginning... i
>>have studied that much... any other examples u can think of
>>akhee?
>>
>>Jazak Allah khair
>
>
> Yes, indeed, there is a purpose behind the ordering of
>the Suras. But before that, what is the purpose of the
>Qur'an itself?? As every Muslim knows, it is to guide
>mankind to the worship of Allah and to live our lives
>according to the instructions of our Creator. If one were to
>summarise the whole Qur'an into a few verses, then
>Alhamdulillah, the sura Fatiha would do just that. That's
>why its in the beginning. Having guided one to the worship
>of our Creator, Allah, how do we worship Him and follow His
>guidance and live our lives according to the instructions of
>Allah?? Well, we read the next suras of the Qur'an ie. Sura
>Bakarah, S. Aali-Imran, S. Nisa and implement them in our
>lives. The entire set of instructions governing the Islamic
>way of life are set out most comprehensively & concisely in
>these Suras, Mashaa-Allah. In just the first 4 suras of the
>Qur'an, the purpose of the Qur'an as a general Guidance to
>mankind is beautifully fulfilled. Other suras are simply a
>repeated reminder of the need to worship Allah alone, to
>praise Him, to Glorify Him constantly or an account of the
>past history of earlier nations and how we are to learn
>lessons from them etc.
>
> A lot of the short Meccan suras towards the end of the
>Qur'an were directly addressed to the Prophet (PBUH) at the
>time of early Revelation, some describing the qualities of
>Allah as the sole Creator, the All-knowing, the All-Hearing,
>the Most Merciful etc. or they were an exhortation to the
>Prophet (PBUH) how to convey the message to the pagan
>Qureish and to hold steadfast to the rope of Allah and bear
>the pain & hardships with patience and perseverence. Though,
>these are in themselves Guidance to mankind thru the
>Prophet, they do not deal with the questions of day to day
>aspects of our lives ie. how to conduct ourselves within the
>family, community or as a single brotherhood or how to
>organise ourselves as a society and conduct our affairs.
>Thus, their ordering in the last. I hope you get the basic
>idea now.
>
>
>
>Wa-salaam,
>Dr.Qaisar
Peace to all!
Just want to say, that;
>Were the surahs, which we have in the order that they were revealed?
If not,
>Who put them in order?
Just want to clarify this issue.
Thankyou in advance!
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 13-04-02 AT 02:38 PM (GMT)]No the Suras are not in the order they were revealed. They were put in this order by the prophet sallallahu alayhe wa sallam after they wrote down the quraan.
the reason we can't have them in order is this...if we put it in order it was revealed... we will have to break some sura's apart! and that wouldn't make sense.... we all know that sura's were not revealed all at once... and sometimes another one would be revealed before one is completed.
Dr.Qaisar,
Thank you very much for the information.
>... this is not in the form of a bound book, like the Constitution of a country.<
I'm having a bit of trouble understanding Sharia. From your description, it sounds like anything in the Quran, hadith or sunnah which proscribes or sanctions a behavior or action can be considered sharia; but these sharia are not complied into one place. How is sharia identified as sharia from the Quran, hadith and sunnah, and who declares it as sharia?
Perhaps you could give me an example of sharia, and explain how it relates to the Quaran, hadith and sunnah.
>Conveying salutations on the Prophet Mohammad is a Command of God (Allah)<
Would you direct me to the verse or verses? I'd like to compare it in the various translations I have.
>Technically, there are no differences with respect to the Qur'an per say between the two groups< ... >a scholar of Shia sect would be qualified to issue rulings pertaining to the Shias which may not be acceptable to the other group<
Forgive my inability to perceive, but I don't follow the distinction here. I'm assuming that all scholarly rulings are ultimately declaring what God has to say about a particular issue, which can be traced back directly or indirectly to the Quran (that is, from God's revelation to Mohammed). If this is the case, what difference would it make if the scholar is Sunni or Shia? Again, perhaps an example would be helpful.
>The Qur'an is the Book of God (Allah) and not ours to re-arrange it.<
This, and your reply to Rasha provides me with an excellent explanation of the order within the Quran. Thanks!
Nzingha,
In post #69, Dr. Qaisar replies > >Conveying salutations on the Prophet Mohammad is a Command ofGod (Allah)<, but he has not shown me where this is found ...... and my curiousity is out of control :). Would you be able to show me where God has commanded it?
I have also read from others that this salutation is to be applied to all of the prophets ... can you comment on that?
Hi Joe,
Try this site:
http://www.islamasoft.co.uk/
You can download here for free the Qoran with commentary.
Greetings to all,
While continuing to read about the life of Mohammed, I have come across a book called "The Religion of Islam" by Dr. Ahmad A. Galwash, published by Al-Shaab Printing House, Cairo, Egypt. This book, unlike some I have read, is obviously written by a Muslim and seems to be comprehensive with regard to the life of Mohammed. Unfortunately Dr. Galwash has not provided specific references to his conclusions, instead gives 59 sources as a general listing. This makes it difficult to find the source of his information, and I am wondering if some here in this forum might be able to direct me further.
In the book, there is a section which describes how Mohammed, after arriving in Medina, established a commonwealth through the drafting of a charter. Dr. Galwash says, in part:
"Medina and its suburbs being at this time inhabited by three distinct parties, the Emigrants, the Helpers and the Jews, the Prophet in order to weld them together into an orderly federation, granted a charter to the people clearly defining their rights and obligations. This charter represented the framework of the Commonwealth organised by the Prophet, and dwelt chiefly on freedom of conscience. ' ... to all believers, whether of Koreish or Medina, and all individuals of whatever origin who have made common cause with them, who shall all constitute one nation.' ... 'All future disputes arising among those who accept this charter, shall be referred , under God, to the Prophet.' Thus this charter put an end to the state of anarchy that prevailed among the Arabs. It constituted the Prophet Mohammed as chief magistrate of the nation."
The help I'm seeking is to know if there is a copy of the charter referred to in the above paragraph, and how I might be able to read it in its totality. It sounds like an important document that would be preserved, and the author must have found something from which to extract his comments and quotations .... unfortunately, as with many authors, he did not tell us where he got the information. Can anyone direct me to the entire charter?
I do not think that the charter was anything more than the Quraan and Sunnah. I have never heard of any written documents... but if anyone knows of it i'd be very very interested to read it.
I think what he meant by the charter is generally the islamic teachings but i'll do my research and see what i come up with :)
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 19-04-02 AT 06:49 PM (GMT)]:) I FOUND THIS!!!!
A CHARTER OF ISLAMIC ALLIANCE:
Just as the Prophet (Peace be upon him) had established a code of brotherhood amongst the believers, so too he was keen on establishing friendly relations between the Muslims and non-Muslim tribes of Arabia. He established a sort of treaty aiming at ruling out all pre-Islamic rancour and inter-tribal feuds. He was so meticulous not to leave any area in the charter that would allow pre-Islamic traditions to sneak in or violate the new environment he wanted to establish. Herein, we look over some of its provisions.
In the Name of Allâh, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful.
This is a document from Muhammad, the Messenger of Allâh, concerning Emigrants and Helpers and those who followed and strove with them.
They are one nation to the exclusion of other people.
The Emigrants of Quraish unite together and shall pay blood money among themselves, and shall ransom honourably their prisoners. Every tribe of the Helpers unite together, as they were at first, and every section among them will pay a ransom for acquitting its relative prisoners.
Believers shall not leave anyone destitute among them by not paying his redemption money or blood money in kind.
Whoever is rebellious or whoever seeks to spread enmity and sedition, the hand of every God-fearing Muslim shall be against him, even if he be his son.
A believer shall not kill another believer, nor shall support a disbeliever against a believer.
The protection of Allâh is one (and is equally) extended to the humblest of the believers.
The believers are supported by each other.
Whosoever of the Jews follows us shall have aid and succour; they shall not be injured, nor any enemy be aided against them.
The peace of the believers is indivisible. No separate peace shall be made when believers are fighting in the way of Allâh. Conditions must be fair and equitable to all.
It shall not be lawful for a believer, who holds by what is in this document and believes in Allâh and the Day of Judgement, to help a criminal nor give him refuge. Those who give him refuge and render him help shall have the curse and anger of Allâh on the Day of Resurrection. Their indemnity is not accepted.
Whenever you differ about a matter, it must be referred to Allâh and to Muhammad.
Killing a believer deliberately with no good reason entails killing the killer unless the sponsor deems it otherwise.
It was solely by his wisdom and dexterity, that the Prophet (Peace be upon him) erected the pillars of the new society. This phenomenon no doubt left its mark on the virtuous Muslims. He used to bring them up in the light of the Islamic education, he sanctified their selves, enjoined them to observe righteousness and praiseworthy manners and was keen on infusing into them the ethics of amity, glory, honour, worship and first and foremost obedience to Allâh and His Messenger.
The following is a cluster of the virtues he used to inculcate in the minds of his followers:
A man asked the Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) which of the merits is superior in Islam. He [the Prophet (Peace be upon him)] remarked:
“That you provide food and extend greetings to one whom you know or do not know.”
‘Abdubin Salâm said: When the Prophet (Peace be upon him) arrived in Madinah, I went to see him and I immediately recognized through his features that he would never be a liar. The first things he (the Prophet [Peace be upon him)] said was:
“Extend peace greetings amongst yourselves, provide food to the needy, maintain uterine relations, observe prayer at night while people are asleep, then you will peacefully enter the Garden (Paradise).”
And he said:
“The Muslim is that one from whose tongue and hand the Muslims are safe.”
And said:
“None amongst you believes (truly) till one likes for his brother that which he loves for himself.”
And said:
“He will not enter Paradise, he whose neighbour is not secure from his wrongful conduct.”
And said:
“A Muslim is the brother of a Muslim; he neither oppresses him nor does he fail him. Whosoever removes a worldly grief from a believer, Allâh will remove from him one of the griefs of the Day of Judgement. Whosoever shields a Muslim, Allâh will shield him on the Day of Resurrection.”
And said:
“Abusing a Muslim is an outrage and fighting against him is disbelief.”
And said:
“To remove something harmful from the road, is charity.”
And said:
“Charity erases sins just as water extinguishes fire.”
And said:
“He is not a perfect believer, who goes to bed full and knows that his neighbour is hungry.”
And said:
“Show mercy to people on earth so that Allâh will have mercy on you in heaven.”
And said:
“Try to avert fire even by half a date (in charity) if not by tendering a good word.”
And said:
“Clothing an under-clad Muslim, entitles you to a garment from the Paradise; feeding a hungry Muslim will make you eligible (by Allâh’s Will) for the fruit of the Paradise, and if you provide water to a thirsty Muslim, Allâh will provide you with a drink from ‘the Sealed Nectar’.”
He used as well to exhort the believers to spend in charity reminding them of relevant virtues for which the hearts yearn.
He said:
“The believers in their mutual love, are like the human body where when the eye is in agony, the entire body feels the pain; when the head aches, all the body will suffer.”
And said:
“The bonds of brotherhood between two Muslims are like parts of a house, one part strengthens and holds the other.”
And said:
“Do not have malice against a Muslim; do not be envious of other Muslims; do not go against a Muslim and forsake him. O the slaves of Allâh! Be like brothers with each other. It is not violable for a Muslim to desert his brother for over three days.”
The Prophet (Peace be upon him) used as well to promote that habit of abstention from asking the others for help unless one is totally helpless. He used to talk to his companions a lot about the merits, virtues and Divine reward implied in observing the prescribed worships and rituals. He would always bring forth corroborated proofs in order to link them physically and spiritually to the Revelation sent to him, hence he would apprise them of their duties and responsibilities in terms of the consequences of the Call of Islam, and at the same time emphasize the exigencies of comprehension and contemplation.
That was his practice of maximizing their morale and imbuing them with the noble values and ideals so that they could become models of virtue to be copied by subsequent generations.
‘Abdullah bin Mas‘ud (May Allah be pleased with him) once said: If you are willing to follow a good example, then you can have a recourse in the tradition of the deceased, because the living are likely to fall an easy victim to oppression (so they might waver in faith). Follow the steps of Muhammad’s Companions. They were the best in this nation, the most pious, the most learned and the least pretentious. Allâh chose them to accompany the Prophet (Peace be upon him) and establish His religion. Therefore, it is imperative to get to know their grace, follow their righteous way and adhere as much as you can to their manners and assimilate their biography. They were always on the orthodox path. There is then the great Messenger of Allâh (Peace be upon him) whose moral visible attributes, aspects of perfection, talents, virtues, noble manners and praiseworthy deeds, entitle him to occupy the innermost cells of our hearts, and become the dearest target that the self yearns for. Hardly did he utter a word when his Companions would race to assimilate it and work in its light.
Those were the attributes and qualities on whose basis the Prophet (Peace be upon him) wanted to build a new society, the most wonderful and the most honourable society ever known in history. On these grounds, he strove to resolve the longstanding problems, and later gave mankind the chance to breathe a sigh of relief after a long wearying journey in dark and gloomy avenues. Such lofty morale lay at the very basis of creating a new society with integrated components immune to all fluctuations of time, and powerful enough to change the whole course of humanity.
This was taken from the book known as Al Raheeq Al makhtoom (The Sealed Nectar) very well known book. It can be found at www.islamworld.net Scroll down till u find Hadith and then under it look for the section on the biography of the prophet. The book is the first link provided. It is the whole biography. You might need it for future references inshaAllah. salam
Huda,
Thanks for the find, it is helpful! I have been browsing "The Sealed Nectar", but did not recognize the portion you found. There is so much information out there, so many places to look, and so many questions to ask :). I sometimes feel foolish when I ask something and the answer is just a link away from where I was looking. The Internet is like a huge chain with a zillion links, each with a tantalizing trinket hanging there to be picked. The trick is to recognize the trinket when you see it. Some can bite you, others can feed you. Likewise Islam itself .... so much to read and understand.
What I was really hoping to find is a document, original or a reliable copy, which gives the entire declaration of the Prophet's statements. When excerpts are provided, I always wonder what sort of filtering and bias comes with them. I don't mean to be a skeptic .... but I usually find that hearing the entire testimony or presentation is more likely to result in a satisfactory understanding than is an excerpt. In some cases there is no choice, but where there is, I prefer the whole package. Then the mistakes cannot be laid at anyone elses doorstep :).
Islam does such a good job at providing reference with Hadith that I suspect somewhere the entire charter is in protective custody, and it's location is known by someone. Let's hope it shows up, since you seem to be interested also.
Hey Joe...
You are very welcome. It is ok to be overwhelmed and I understad that it will be super hard for u to find things now.... Even i have hard time locating things....
The only reason i found it is because i looked there first and it just jumped at me.
you are right the internet is a huge place.... sometimes too hard to find anything... the only way i can find things is because i go to few sites which i trust andsearch there first and foremost. this way you get familiar with the site and its easier to find things :)
Do not feel silly or anything.... we all do things like that...
As for the document... hmm.... original even if i find it, it will be in arabic.... not very helpful.... I will try to look for something else... but i think the sealed nectar is pretty reliable book... there sources are very well known too.... however i have few old books on my shelf... i'll check them out.
In islam, when anything is put forth especially when retelling a story of the prophet... i don't think anything is removed... its part of islam to not play with anything... leave it as it is, is our rule.
However I'll look... I actually have a book of some sermons of the prophet... i might find something there too.
As for referrence of Hadith... its like this... there must be a trust worthy chain of narration for any hadith to be accepted as Sahih (reliable 100%) otherwise, it is clasified as da'eef (weak) and we do not put so much weight on it.
I will look more into the charter.... i think i would really be interested to know... its my beloved prophet after all lying out the rules for an islamic way of life... i think everyone is interested.
Salam to all!
I know this was not directed to me, i hope the sister, replys and helps too;
>Nzingha,
>
>In post #69, Dr. Qaisar replies > >Conveying salutations on
>the Prophet Mohammad is a Command ofGod (Allah)<, but he has
>not shown me where this is found ...... and my curiousity is
>out of control :). Would you be able to show me where God
>has commanded it?
>
>I have also read from others that this salutation is to be
>applied to all of the prophets ... can you comment on that?
This link should help (see below);
This is an extract from the site;
"...Ibn al-Qayyim says,
"This is the best of all the previous views: that Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is one of the family of Ibraaheem; in fact, he is the best of the family of Ibraaheem, as 'Ali ibn Talhah has related from Ibn 'Abbaas (radi Allaahu 'anhu) about the saying of the Exalted, "Allaah has chosen Aadam, Nooh, the family of Ibraaheem and the family of 'Imraan above all people" (aal-'Imraan 3:33); Ibn 'Abbaas said, "Muhammad is among the family of Ibraaheem". This is text for the fact that if other prophets descended from Ibraaheem are included in his family, then the inclusion of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is more fitting. Hence our saying, "... as you sent prayers on the family of Ibraaheem", includes the prayers sent on him and on the rest of the prophets descended from Ibraaheem. Allaah has then ordered us to specifically send prayers on Muhammad and his family, as much as we send prayers on him, along with the rest of Ibraaheem's family generally. Therefore, the Prophet's family receives out of that what is appropriate for them, leaving all of the remainder to him (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam). There is no doubt that the total amount of prayers received by Ibraaheem's family, with the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) among them, is greater than that received by the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) alone. Therefore, what is sought for him is such a great favour, definitely superior than that sought for Ibraaheem. Hence, the nature of the comparison and its consistency become clear. The prayers sought for him with these words are greater than those requested any other way, since what is requested with the supplication is that it be as much as the model of comparison, and that the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) receive a large portion: the comparison dictates that what is requested is more than what was given to Ibraaheem and others. Thus, the excellence and nobility of Muhammad (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), over and above Ibraaheem and his family, which includes many prophets, is evident, and is as he deserves. This sending of prayers on the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) becomes evidence for this excellence of his, and this is no more than he deserves. So, may Allaah send prayers on him and on his family, and send peace on them, many greetings of peace, and reward him from our supplications better than He has rewarded any prophet from his people. O Allaah! send prayers on Muhammad, and on the family of Muhammad, as you sent prayers on the family of Ibraaheem; You are indeed Worthy of Praise, Full of Glory. And send blessings on Muhammad, and on the family of Muhammad, as you sent blessings on the family of Ibraaheem; You are indeed Worthy of Praise, Full of Glory."......."
Link> http://www.qss.org/articles/salah/13.html
This is one of the verses that i hope 'controls' your eagerness to learn;
"O you who believe! Send prayers on him, and salute him with all respect." (Ahzaab 33:56)
I hope you learn more and ask too..
Sadiq
JaLaal,
Thanks for the reference. Those downloads will be a valuable resource and I'll try to put them to good use. What I like about software versions of the Noble Qur'an is not having to remember to turn the pages backward from how I'm used to reading a book :).
Salam to all
Internet...too much water here to surf over...so to say.!
I hope this link should help, some links;
>http://www.islamicresources.com/119.htm
If you do have the money to learn the truth, then...visit this link;
>http://islamicbookstore.com/books-prophet-muhammad--pbuh--sirah--the-life-of-the-prophet-muhammad.html
Need anything else, please do ask...and there are alot of members willing to fill thier account in the herafter with deeds.
Sadiq!
Sadiq,
Thank you for the reply.
At the QSS website I attempted to browse The Prophet's Prayer since that is where you seemed to have copied from, but I must admit to being overwhelmed. Even with the glossary, there were too many Arabic and middle English terms, along with the parenthetical phrases, to keep my mind focused on the subject matter. I seem to get lost in whether something is being quoted from the Quran, or hadith, or the author's comments. I'm sure for you, or any Muslim, the information is very illuminating, but this poor boy got totally lost :(. I will continue to muddle around there ... perhaps it will eventually make sense.
I think I get the purpose of the salutation .... it's a prayer directed to the Prophet (isn't it ?).
Which brings to mind several questions. Is this phrase known as tasleem? In the religion of Islam, how is a prayer for someone dead helpful to that person? Is the command to couple this prayer with the name of the Prophet a directive in the Quran, or something obtained from hadith? (sorry, I couldn't determine this on my own)
Islamicbookstore.com .... good site. Like being hungry for sweets and going into a large candy store. What to choose?
hmm... here are some suggestions
I do not recommend books by Al Ghazaali for a starter... I was told by an islamic scholar that his style is for those who already know the islamic teachings... so i guess any book by alghazali is out.
I have the book in the shade of the quraan and i love it. Its beautiful.
Tafsir Ibn Kathir is the one most trust worthy book i know of which tells the meaning of each verse... i think u need that since u do not speak Arabic. This book most arab speakers even have it and look it up to understand the meaning of the quraan. Its a must have and must read to understand the quraan.
I've heard of Turjuman al Quraan... do not know however how good.
and I think: Study the Noble Qur'an Word-for-Word 3-Vol. Complete Set is also good.
Pick one of the above... i'd recommend Tafsir ibn kathir and then in the shade of the quraan.
---------------------
Summarized Sahih Al-Bukhari is excellent for hadith reference. Again.. a must read. Sahih muslim and sunan abu dawud are good. but u can find these online.
Riyadh-us-Saleheen is an excellent book. u can also find this online.
do not buy 110 Hadith Qudsi .. u can find these online.
A Day With The Prophet (saw) sounds good... i don't know about it though.
An-Nawawi's Forty Hadith is the basics of islam. its really beautiful collection. get one with commentary or something if u think u want to get one.
---------------
Ar-Raheeq Al-Makhtum (The Sealed Nectar) is excelent and u can find it online :)
about life of prophet i recommend the movie "The Message".. its good.
Madinan Society at the Time of the Prophet sounds good too... hmm... i think i want to get that one.
Muhammad's Prophethood: An Analytical View is bad!! DO NOT GET IT! I recieved it from a sister and...hm....well its not bad but... hmm... some statements are weird. I didn't like it
The Sublime Character (Muhammad) sounds good
--------------
if u are getting a book on any of the companions... well i can give u a site to check their stories but... there is one book which i absolutly love on the life of Omar!! SUCH A LOVELY BOOK!
and I know the author in person too :)
Fiqh us Sunnah is a book of the laws... what to do in such and such position... its basically a book of compiled laws taken from ahadith classified according to topics.
The Ideal Muslim .. i liked the ideal Muslimah so i assume that would be nice too... its available online.
The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam (Yusuf al Qaradawi) I heard this is good.... hmm... i don't know!!! (i personally wouldn't recommend it but i have not looked at it so i don't know)
The Major Sins: Al-Kaba'r is a good book
:)
this is as far as i would recommend....
Huda,
Thanks very much .... appreciate the recommendations. I'll let you know how I like the candy :).
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