Rejecting One's Faith

[JBJ]

Salaam alaikum to all readers,

I have a question for everyone. If your faith was proven to be false, would you still follow it? I don't mean the dinky kind of unimportant so-called proofs, like "proving" aliens are out there. I mean the solid stuff. For example, if your Book says Moses ate beans in one place, and in another place says he never ate beans. Something that is undeniable.

I'm not looking for a response. I'd more like everyone to ponder this thought: could I leave my religion for the true way of Allah? Could I face myself? My family? Friends? Could I accept another religion that I know is true but don't understand? Or includes people or ideas I don't like?

Go deep with this one. And if you feel you could take the truth if you found it, ask yourself, how do I know when I find the truth?

[Netcurtains]

A very good question.
Religion is heavily interwoven with nationalism.
If you reject your religion then in a sense you reject your nation.
Just look at Japan after the second world war. Not an easy time. The Japanese (at present) would rather no religion then accept a new religion. This is very similiar to the UK. The majority of the UK, if asked, would say their religion was: "CofE - Church Of England" - but in fact only about 3% of the UK go to a CofE church.

Each religion has its own blind spots - Islam says its multi-racial but doesn't let other religions practice in Arabia (thus making other religions into racists) and to be a "true" muslim you need to have some understanding of Arabic. Christianity was happy to DROP an atom bomb (st Peter might have carried a sword - a deterrent - but Jesus did not want him to use it, even in self defence). Buddhists and Hindus look nice and friendly but in fact the main concept behind their religion does lead to a cast system - eg coming back to "higher" or "lower" levels depending on your life.

The problem is also complicated by family life and ties and children.

I think St Paul had some things right. Fundamentally being "good" is a RACE. When you get 'conservative' you are no longer on the CREST of a WAVE - you are NOT IN FRONT. What is the "crest of the wave"?

[Rasha]

I think if i find the truth i'd go for it even if it meant death for me. Indeed I do this everyday.. this is part of being a muslim....

do you guys know what we go through?? I guess u do'nt ... u need to be in our place to know....

Family: My parents call me extremist sometimes!!! Do I care?? Do I leave my faith? Do I change who I am?? There are many issues where me and my family simply disagree in matters of faith... do I leave my belief for them?? NO! And will not.

At Friends: When I decided to practice islam, being a normal "canadian" that I was.... everyone looked at me with scorn... teachers tried talking me out of it... argued that its not freedom etc... many people stopped being my friends... did that stop me?? I guess not or I won't be here today.

People: Do you know how many insults we get, how many criticism, enemity, hateful looks, laughs etc... people make fun of us for the way we dress and eat and and and and... does that make me love islam any less.... I do'nt think so...

My best friend..... her parents basicly mock her.. tell her she is stupid, and dumb for practicing islam... that its an "ancient" religion etc... does it stop her?? on the contrary it pushed her more towards Allah....

I can go on and on.... I personally believe that if one finds the truth... there should be nothing standing in ones face to reach the truth...

When i started practicing islam and loving it... I said to everyone... do what u want.. think what you want.. say what u want.. as for me... I am running to Allah! Till the day I meet him...

= )

i hope this answers ur question!

[Netcurtains]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-04-02 AT 11:29 PM (GMT)]Hi,
DOES PAIN MAKE 'YOUR' DECISIONS RIGHT? NO IT DOES NOT!!!

lol. I was a small time shop keeper for 6-7 years. I had nazi's smashing the place down - almost weekly. I was robbed and abused. My staff were robbed and abused by thugs (often). Being called in by the Police at 3am every other week is no fun - let me assure you. Life was very very hard. It was incredibly difficult. Did this robbery and abuse make my decision to be a shop-keeper right? No of course not! I am now in IT (15 years) and count myself fortunate. Would I go back to shop-keeping? Yes, of course I would - but I would do things very differently as a 40 year old then a 20 year old.

In my early religious life I used to bring Northern Irish children over to South London to give them something different. As a mid-twenties chap I helped a suicidal HIV positive drug abuser survive (literally). Was I right then? Not sure? Was I just pretending to be good for my benefit or did I do these people any real good?

I haven't done any thing "good" for about 15 years. What is good? I am confused.

[Rasha]

NutCurtains... I have no clue what you are talking about!!!

Anyways....when u figure out what ur talking about... I'll try to answer... if you are confused... well i don't think i know what the question is!

The main question of the thread was..if u know ur religion was wrong... would u stay in it? would u leave it?? if you left it, what about family? friends? etc... this is the question i tried to answer!

If you had another question...sorry i might have missed it... maybe say it again in clearer way

= )

later

[Netcurtains]

You listed a long list of your 'problems'. I am saying having 'problems' does not make your decisions correct. You have not answered the question. All you have said is "I find life hard since I became a Muslim". This is not totally relevant to the question (although I grant you it has some aspects of relevance).

[Rasha]

NutCurtain...
just answer ur argument that islam is not racist and then doesn't allow other religions in Arabia... this is not true.

In Islam, under TRUE ISLAMIC RULE... any faith may be in any islamic state EXCEPT THE HOLY LANDS! In Kuwait, I know of several Christian arabs who live, go to schools, live just like anyone else.. to accomodate for the fact that they do not take religious (islamic) studies subject, their marking scheme is totally different so to be fair! I know in western schools everyone joins in "christian" activities.. i do not see accomodations made!

In the time of the rule of the islamic empire... muslims, jews, and christians all lived together... jews and christians payed tax muslims payed what we called charity.. different name... similar form! Actually it is more for muslims... jews and christians payed jezya which is a fixed amount... muslims payed if they had camels or sheep, payed again a specific amount for the poor, payed if they had money in savings, payed if they had crops to grow!! I do not see racism here!

I actually see the opposite... we stand in one row, shoulder to shoulder, foot to foot in prayers in the mosque... no difference between arab, non arab, black or white!!!!!

Also, did u know that the first mu'athen (caller to prayer) in islam was a BLACK MAN!!

About the issue of learning Arabic.... it has nothing to do with being "true" muslim.. it is some extra step many love to do... i know of tones of true wonderful muslims who do not know arabic... they learn only the quraan in arabic (the bit they need for prayer which is 7 verses!!!!!) How then do u judge...please do not speak if u do not know!

Sorry don't mean to be angry at u... I guess i'm just tired today and keep getting irritated at people.... I guess its the situation back home in palestine that is getting to me....

anyways... just needed to clarify things for ya.

later

[Rasha]

NutCurtain.. I did not mention my troubles to show u that life is hard... I listed them to say... it is hard... does that distroy faith?? NO!

If you know something is true... you would stand up for it.. even if it meant u would have more problems!

[JaLaaL]

>Salaam alaikum to all readers,

Wa Alaikum.

>I have a question for everyone. If your faith was proven to
>be false, would you still follow it? I don't mean the dinky
>kind of unimportant so-called proofs, like "proving" aliens
>are out there. I mean the solid stuff. For example, if
>your Book says Moses ate beans in one place, and in another
>place says he never ate beans. Something that is
>undeniable.

If the fundament of your faith is proven to be logically incorrect c.q. it contains lot of mutually exclusive statements then I would definately not follow it.

I follow things with reason, just as Islam wants from us all and not by blind faith, otherwise the purpose of the way your walking on has no goal.

>I'm not looking for a response. I'd more like everyone to
>ponder this thought: could I leave my religion for the true
>way of Allah? Could I face myself? My family? Friends?
>Could I accept another religion that I know is true but
>don't understand? Or includes people or ideas I don't like?

I did ever ask myself this question too and I could certainly face my family and friends, because faith has to do with your personal conviction about the Creator.

Family and friends must not be an obstacle on your way for looking the truth.


>Go deep with this one. And if you feel you could take the
>truth if you found it, ask yourself, how do I know when I
>find the truth?


100% Satisfaction, without keeping yourself for fool.

[jcecil3]

Greetings All!

When faced with a blatant contradiction, there are so many ways of looking at it. Let's say A and B represent two apparently contradictory ideas. My holy book says A and B are both true in two different verses. Here are possible ways to look at it:

1) A is true and B is false.
2) B is true and A is false.
3) I misinterpreted A, and both A and B are true with the new understanding.
4) I misinterpreted B, and both A and B are true with the new understanding.
5) I misinterpreted both A and B, and both A and B are true with the new understanding.
6) Both A and B are false.
7) Both A and B are partly true and partly false.
8) I misinterpreted both A and B, but both are still false.
9) I misinterpreted B, but A and B are true
etc...,etc...,etc....

My whole point is that nobody should ever give up their religion solely over an apparent contradiction.

An apparent contradiction in any religion ought to be viewed as an invitation to study the issue more deeply, or be less dogmatic on the specific issue at hand until we receive more clarity.

That's why I've argued before that we Christians and Muslims need to stop arguing with one another over apparent contraditions and try to explain what we find beautiful and meaningful in our religions. Beauty is a greater test of religious truth than consistency.

When we run across an apparent contradiction in another person's religion, we ought to ask for clarification with the assumption that there really is an answer, rather than assuming it is proof that the other person is wrong.

We're all human, and we fall into this argumentative state sometimes, but it's not the spirit that I think God-Allah calls us to. All the prophets taught humility as we seek truth.

Peace and Blessings!
jcecil3

[Rasha]

Truth stands clear from falsehood...when u see truth... ur heart will know it... ask ur heart what is truth...and follow it (of course after learning and gaining knowledge). I have found this useful in many occasions!

[Muslihah]

Hello JBJ,

Your question: could I leave my religion for the true way of Allah?

Listen to your heart and pray to Allah for guidance.Allah will not torture anyone.He has promised to show the right path to anyone who search for it.After doing so much researches and learning, you feel that a religion is true,so don't hestitate.I won't stay where I am after knowing that what I believe is false, but I am confident that Islam is the truth.

Could I face myself?My family? Friends?

When you know you are right, you will not be afraid of the others and will not be embaressed with what you are.Instead you will feel proud.

Could I accept another religion that I know is true but don't understand? Or includes people or ideas I don't like?

Learn thoroughly that particular religion.The right religion will always have answers to every questions and satisfy mankind.

I hope my answers help.
Muslihah.

[vancouver]

Greetings Rasha

This is what can happen when you find the truth.

For example, Jesus warned: "I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household." (Matthew 10:35, 36) True to Jesus' warning, many of his followers have been persecuted by family members. What a sad, painful situation! Still, family ties should not outweigh our love for Jehovah God and for Jesus Christ. (Matthew 10:37-39) If one endures despite family opposition, the opposers may change when they see the good effects of godly devotion. (1 Corinthians 7:12-16; 1 Peter 3:1, 2) Even if that does not happen, no lasting good is gained by ceasing to serve God because of opposition.

When people persecute others for their beliefs it is always for selfish reasons and never for real concern of the individual changing their beliefs.

All the best

vancouver

[Rasha]

:)

I think you are right Vancouver... I am thankful to Allah that He has after all that we went through started to show my family truth.. but I hope no more will be talks about me.... it was only used for example!

Please everyone... no more talks on the situation... or that will be beyond the issue JBJ asked about.

thanks

[JBJ]

Thanks for your responses, everyone, though as I said before, I was never looking for them. It seems to me that a couple people were a little confused about what I brought up. I didn't pose the question for help on my own conversion, I meant toward each person who reads here. It isn't whether JBJ can change his religion, it's whether you can.

I hope the responses people gave and those given unspoken will remain in each readers heart when they consider other ideas here. Not neccessarily a person's entire religoin even, but just single aspects of it.

JBJ

[Sadiq]

Salam to all!

I have been away for some time...

A very 'stricking' post, but i think members have shown thier insight into the thread.

I will only say on my part...that i am a muslim and i cheerish this with all my life. I feel and i am confident of not leaving islam, for the mere fact that, islam provides everything and anything in my life, in the world arena, anything you name it, it is there.

You have to remember that, islam and muslims are different, muslims are those who follow it, and some follow it properly, some change it, some introduce other things and so on...so those who want to find out about islam...then refer to the most authentic source avaiable on earth, the holy quran.

As one scholar said, when you gain some weight or loss some weight, the suit you brought for $500, will you just throw it away....NO...you will just adjust a little and away you go. So when someone becomes a muslim, they change a little and they dont have to 'start' all over again....

But seriously, every day, i 'try' and come closer to allah, with deeds and intentions....if i find something confusing, then i consult scholar and away you go...

Everything is perfect and without islam, i will be at a great loss!! What can save be on the day of judgement, other than this way of life???!!

Sadiq!

[jesusfreak4life]

I totally love this topic!!! I was just telling my sister last nite that many people at school were asking me that same question. What if in the end there was no God nothing. Would you still believe(follow him). Yes Yes Yes.
Why?
Because He's the only desire of my heart and 4 Him I live alone.
That's my view.

Dee
nenadee42@yahoo.com