View Full Version : Terrorists...yes or no
Found this interesting article on one site...
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Questions to World Conscience
Q-1. Were Nazis Germans?
A-1. Yes.
Q-1.1 Were all Germans Nazis?
A-1.1 No.
Q-2. Are Israelis Jews ?
A-2 Yes.
Q-2.1 Are all Jews Israelis?
A-2.1 No.
Q-3. Are Talibans Afghanis ?
A-3. Yes.
Q-3.1 Are all Afghanis Talibans ?
Q-3.1 No.
Q-4. Are all Talibans terrorists ?
Q-5. Are all Arabs terrorists?
Q-6. Are all Muslims terrorists?
Q-7. Are all Jews terrorists?
A-4,5,6,7 : BIG No.
Please punish the terrorists only, for they kill the innocents. If you also kill the innocents (along with the terrorists) then what is the difference between them and you ? !
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Netcurtains
14-04-2002, 20:37
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-04-02 AT 08:28 PM (GMT)]I've been reading Genesis Ch18.
Concerning the Terebinth Tree Of Mamre. Apparently this tree is
not to be mentioned on Islamic Web sites (odd but true).
However Genesis Ch18 answers all your questions about Terrorists and Innocence. Would angelic beings blow up whole towns or would
they only kill those that were "terrorists".
The answer is sitting under the Terebinth Tree of Mamre - but can we talk about it that is the question?
Terebinth Tree - I've said it three times now - so far so good.
Just a question Nutcurtains... is this tree u speak of the same tree the Jews are planting in Palestine now?!!
and another question.... why do u like this tree so much?! how does it have to do with islam anyways!
Netcurtains
14-04-2002, 21:58
Hi,
I have no idea. I wrote a message about it and it was deleted.
I had a question. What does the Islamic religion have to say about the Three men that visited Abraham. The question was deleted. No idea why. The Tree is called elah but that is not the name for God used by Islam, but it is similiar. The Tree Of Life is a Christian phrase. Elah in this sense means a mighty Oak (the reverse of Mr Bush).
well since its not islamic... lets not speak of it!
Netcurtains
14-04-2002, 23:13
But I think this Abraham story is Islamic.
Sodom is in the Qu'ran (I think). Is Abraham in the Qu'ran? If he is then are these three "angels" in it too?
If they are did they "bomb" Sodom only after all the non-"terrorists" had left?
I am sure this story is in the Qu'ran?
The site of this Tree event is Hebron. being Palastinian is there an Historic site for this tree? I think there is.
Ibrahim (or Abraham as he is called in the bible) is addressed in the Quraan as Khalil Allah. Khalil is a higher rank than a friend.
What I know about Ibrahim is the story of him looking for God, how he thought the sun is god, then he discovered it is not, then he thought the moon was... etc until he finally knew that God is Allah the one. The quraan mentions his story of breaking the idols, the story of his people trying to burn him in the fire and how the fire didn't harm him at all... it speaks of him building the ka'aba, and his attempt to sacrifice his son in order to obey God. This i think is all that Islam speaks of Ibarhim. I don't know about the angels and do not think they are mentioned.
Netcurtains
14-04-2002, 23:31
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 14-04-02 AT 10:36 PM (GMT)]Odd.
This Islamic site says Abraham and Sodom are linked.
http://www.islamicvoice.com/september.2000/Science.htm
Did god destroy Sodom in the Qu'ran story or was it an angel?
It is not Ibrahim... it says: "Lut lived at the same time as Ibrahim". The story of Sodom has nothing to do with Ibrahim. :)
Who distroyed them? The Quraan is clear on that: “When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer” The word Our is reffering to Allah, We also. If u are wondering about the plural pronoun, then this refers to knowledge of Arabic. In Arabic, I can address myself as I am, or We are. I can say, My Book or Our book. Thus, it is referring to Allah who says to something be and it is.
Whether Allah sent angels to do it or not... I can't tell you. It might be that Allah sent angels in charge of that... Allah knows best.
Why were they distroyed? The Quraan says: "For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds"
<<These people, as the Quran tells us, practised a perversion unknown to the world up to then, namely sodomy. When Lut told them to give up this perversion and brought them Allah’s warning, they denied him, refused his prophethood, and carried on with their perversion. In the end, these people were destroyed by a dreadful disaster. >>
It is clear that it doesn't mention angels here... but what does it matter... if angels did it according to Allah's will or if Allah simply said be and it was... what difference does it make?? I see no difference!
Netcurtains
15-04-2002, 07:58
COMPARISON.
We have the Torah version of Sodom.
We have the Qu'ran version of Sodom.
The Torah version protects the innocent
from destruction.
The Torah version has Abraham and Three Angels
and that Lot is a relative of Abraham.
Netcurtains, I suggest that you re-read the link that you provided, and try to better understand and comprehend this time.
For one thing, those concerned were not necessarily terrorists, but were rather sinners in a particular manner (i.e. apt and prone to committing sodomy, which in turn got it's name from the locale in which they lived, Sodom).
For another thing, the Quran tells of saving the innocents, i.e. Lut's family, excepting for his wife, who was a known and professed sinner. The compliance and procession of the verses clearly indicates that those who were guilty of the sins (not only guilty of the sins committed, but guilty as well of ignoring the many signs and warnings from their prophet Lut), were the ones to be punished, and the innocents were spared the punishment. And surely, that punishment that they received in this life (the torture that they found at the destruction not only of their city, but the end to their lives, and therefore the resulting end to any chance of redemption by perhaps repenting sometime in the future), is only the beginning of their torment. For the true punishment comes in the afterlife. Death is something written and incumbent upon all souls, and all shall taste once the death of this life. So, their death, no matter how seemingly untimely or surprising that it was for them, is not necessarily the extent of their punishment and torment. And if by chance there were any innocents present at the time of the destruction of Sodom, then they will be judged accordingly at the Judgement Day, and they will recieve their due reward. I.e....they will not be punishment in eternal torment for anything that they did not commit.
And Allah knows best that which all persons keep secret, and He is the most Just of Judges.
Lulua.
Netcurtains
15-04-2002, 19:37
The Torah version makes a HUGE HUGE HUGE point about
protecting the innocent. There is a great deal of
DEBATE and a great deal of EFFORT made to protect
anyone who is innocent.
The very reverse of DRESDEN, SUICIDE BOMBERS, ATOM
BOMBS, ISRAELI ARMY, ISRAELI ARMY, ISRAELI ARMY
and BIN LADEN.
Hi Netty,
I assume you are referring to the dialogue that Abraham holds with the Lord in which he asks Him, "If there are fifty innocent people in the city (of Sodom), will you still destroy it?" The Lord answers no, and Abraham repeats the question, this time lowering the number to 45. The Lord makes the same response. This keeps going for awhile, and you can almost see the wheels turning in Abraham's mind. He's got to be mentally counting . . . Lot, plus Lot's wife, plus Lot has three daughters. . . that makes at least five righteous people, right? Not even counting the daughter's husbands. Unfortunately, we learn later that Lot may very well have been the *only* righteous person in the city, since his wife and daughters don't seem too good either, and his sons-in-law are so far gone they won't even leave the city.
Contrast this to the books of Jeremiah and Lamentations where Jeremiah describes the destruction of Jerusalem and the whole Jewish nation. He warns them and warns them, but they persist in rejecting the Lord and as a result the nation is totally destroyed. There were still plenty of righteous people in the nation at that time, but they suffered the same fate as the unrighteous.
I think in both cases the real point is that the Lord gave warning after warning and that most people chose to reject Him. It's not about whether the righteous were protected from judgment--sometimes the Lord does that, sometimes He doesn't. It's all about what people did with the warning that they were given.
To the Muslims on this thread: does the Koran promise special protection to Muslims, or does it say that believers will suffer along with non-believers?
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