Blasphemy laws

[Netcurtains]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 05-04-02 AT 07:51 PM (GMT)]On my way home I was listening to a debate on
BBC Radio 4. Basically one person wanted the
blasphemy laws extended to include the Muslim
religion and the other side wanted them abolished.

The person who wanted them extended had as a main argument
that 'blasphemy causes offence to people of that
religion that is being blasphemed against'.

The person who wanted them abolished said 'free speech'.

A phone in member of the public who was a "new age" pagan
said "the bible and Koran have whole sections in them that
'blaspheme' against pagans, idolatorists and thus the
bible and the Koran should be banned for blasphemy too".

Thinking about it, especially with the internationalisation
of peoples and religions it makes perfect sense that
blasphemy laws should be totally abolished. Think about it
for a second - the koran is basically a 'blasphemy' against
people who think jesus is god. The New Testament is basically
a 'blasphemy' against Islam. Both 'blaspheme' against pagans.
This would be a funny topic but some people still go to prison
for 'blasphemy' in certain places.

In the UK, at one time the movie "The Life Of Brian" was concidered
blasphemy. But it makes at least two very valid religious points.

The sketch of the "sermon of the mount". There are two people at the back of the four thousand people listening. They obviously cannot hear what is being said (a valid point). One said to the other "I think he said blessed are the cheese makers". The other pompous one said "no no, he obviously means by this everyone involved in the dairy industry - the cheese makers are just an example". I don't see this as blasphemy - this is religion.

What are your views? Is it a crime to blaspheme or just bad manners?

[vancouver]

Hi netcurtains

I watched 'the life of brian' and I thought it was more educational than blasphemous. A point I have been discussing on another thread on this web-site was God's name and how the JEWS became superstitious about using it and even stoned people to death for uttering it. This was magnificently brought out in that comedy film and the english translation 'Jehovah' was used. I did not find that blasphemous at all. No one blashphemes God more than the Jews with their failure to recognise God's Messianic Son. Now the religion of Judaism has no purpose or future as they will now always be behind the curve as it were.

All the best

vancouver

[Netcurtains]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 07-04-02 AT 12:06 PM (GMT)](I put this on a different thread but it belongs here):

It is DEFINITELY right to be academic in religion and to put the historic case over as correctly as you can. Some bishops and clergy in the UK don't really believe Jesus was god in any sense that ordinary christians think of god. They have come to this conclusion using academic research. This does not make them right but it does mean they have a point. About 10 years ago the Bishop Durham gave a speech saying the "virgin birth of Jesus" was Just a story. He might or might not be correct. About a week later a lightning bolt shot out from the sky and badly damages York Cathedral. It had been standing there for ONE THOUSAND YEARS. The Bishop was RIGHT to give his sermon. Was the reponse God or a coincidence?
I know some of you don't read links so here it is:

"1984 - NEW BISHOP
(County Durham)
David Jenkins becomes the new Bishop of Durham. He is noted for his outspoken and controversial beliefs, including doubts over the resurrection of Christ and the Virgin birth. He is consecrated at York Minster.

July 1984 - MINSTER FIRE
(York)
A major fire destroys parts of York Minster after it is hit by lightning.
"
http://clients.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/millennium/history/page95.htm

Note if this was an act of God - then god was happy for the bishop to say what he did (he did not attack the bishop) rather god was upset with the "organisation" that promotes non-believers to lead believers. No people were hurt.

[Rasha]

SubhanaAllah (Praise to Allah) ...
I really hate those "stupid" ones who spend their time trying to fight against God!

The books revealed by God are GOD'S BOOKS! No one has the right to change them. Now i believe the bible has been changed but i know many of u don't... well anyways assuming its right... i do not think these idiots have the right to remove anything from either the bible or the Quraan....

If they do not like it... they don't have to follow it. Do'nt fall into their trap NutCurtains... As a Muslim I believe that the Quran is the word of God.. if God doesn't approve of the pagans and the non believers.... then we follow God... who are we to say well i know god hates it but lets not tell others about it!!!!!!

NutCurtains.... no one has a right to remove or add to the word of God. END OF DISCUSSION!

I looked up the actual definition of "blaspheme" and it says: To speak of (God or a sacred entity) in an irreverent, impious manner.

To me this is greatly punishable by God to speak about Him with anything less than the respect God deserves.... same goes to talking in such manner about his scripture.

I think now you are talking of... saying these things about others... well... i wo'nt say it myself.. .who am i to judge them... but if God said it... then it is God's word... they can sort it out with God on day of judgement not with me. If i am reciting my quraan and i read a verse which says: Cursed are the non believers... and someone finds offense... well too bad. i didn't say it... its God's words!

If i go and say to u I think u are a cursed man.. this will be bad manners but if i am saying... God said the non believers are cursed... then this is a fact!

[Netcurtains]

"cursed" is another way of saying "unlucky" as far as I can tell.
If god exists and you think he does not then of course you are "cursed" or "unlucky" - both words fit. But if you read the TITLE in the thread whether you are cursed or unlucky is irrelevant. The title is whether there should be a law to make it ILLEGAL. For sure, I agree it is UNFORTUNATE to attack someone elses religion but should it be illegal? this is the question - should it be ILLEGAL? Making it illegal will stop people discussing. This site will be closed down.

On a more light weight note. Me and Jcecil3 are on trial for Blasphemy. Perhaps some interesting thoughts might come up as the trial progresses (perhaps note).

http://pub90.ezboard.com/finstituteforunicornresearchfrm12.showMessage?topi cID=39.topic

[Rasha]

ok then my answer is no...it shouldn't be illegal... i have freedom of belief and speech!

I can say what i want... as a matter of fact... i walk down the halls in university and i say things like: "I don't understand how could the Israelis be so heartless and kill like barbarians especially after what happened to them with hitler" and such words, with all the people around me jewish and israelis.. i get looks but no one can tell me anything. I'm talking to my friend... i should be able to express my feelings freely... or else the law should be implemented on everything that offends anyone...

the other day on the bus a man came to me and said to me not to read the quraan as it offends him i read it in public!!! I simply told him its a free country and i can do what i wish. I could have said... well it offends me that u come talk to me.. it offends me that u wear tight pants!!!!

should wearing tight pants be made illegal??? It offends me!

:) i'm not trying to be sarcastic but it really makes no sense to make things like this illegal because that means we will have zero freedom unless they will make it illegal only for religious things... or else....i'll tell u a list of things that offends me right now (just in case u do implement the law u know what i want banned)

1. no ladies in tank tops
2. no men in tight pants
3. no women younger than 17 in makeup
4. no kissing in public
5. no hugs or anything in public.. if anyone needs to do anything.. they can go home and do what they want.
6. no laughing loudly....
7. no discrimination in news papers!! (there were to so offending articles just this last friday.. they practically ruined my day.. they were saying all sort of garbage about my faith and people... but i could tolerate ppl not liking palestine or taliban... but they speak about islam and i feel like i am burning from anger)

should i go on the list??
do u see what i'm getting at Nutcurtain..its ridiculous.... what u think is ok.. i see offending.. i am not joking but it really offends me to see people almost naked and doing all sort of things in public... makes me sick! however people do it... do they care that i get offended ?? no... if i go complain to the law.. they will say.. freedom!! Well... my freedom says i can believe what i want... if i go and attack a non believer because i say my religion says they are stupid.... this is of course not acceptable... not by my religion and shouldn't be acceptable by public..this is illegal... but.. to believe what i want... this is my business! so long as i do not go around harming anyone!

When i treate people (even the israelis) i use manners that are taught by islam... whether i love them or not.. this is my business!