View Full Version : Message to all our non muslim visitors
This is by no way directed at anyone.... Just some thoughts that came to mind as I was sitting today....
I remembered this forum...and how, despite our attempt to show the world what Islam means.... very few get this point!!! I thought of NutCurtains and all the others.... and I don't know... why people don't get it.
Muslims are just like you all.... we are human beings, with emotions too... we have loved ones, we have families, we have a life too.. just a different type of life. You can't judge things if you don't try them.... you can't judge islam if you don't try it... or at least look at it from a different angle... one that has no "media effect" what so ever.
Many of us Muslims can tell you how we were drawn to the beauty of islam.... so what if we are born muslim.. you think all of us are born into a religious family!!! Sadly not!! Many of us had to discover islam ourselves.... many of us had to see islam from the outside... many Alhamdulillah succeed in bringing islam back to their homes....
The difference between islam and any other faith is... islam is not just a religion... its not just a faith... islam means... willingness to sell ur whole body and soul for the sake of the one who created you!!
Islam means to fully submit.. islam means to love your creator more than anything. If you loved someone.... wouldn't u go into all the trouble to please them!! Look at the west... we see men doing anything to please their girlfriends.....and vise versa!! Now we are looking at a larger picture... a love greater than all that... a love for the one who created us!! The one who not only created us but blessed us and gave us our life, our food, our families...our spouces, our children.... one who gave us everything that is dear to us in this world.... if one was to do you a favour.. u'll forever want to thank them... what about God?? doesn't he deserve our thanks!!
THAT is the message Muslims try to get across.... God.. the One who created us... wanted us to worship him alone.... he sent proof... and many people mock and ridicule these proofs... as sis Lulua said... Muslims take their faith seriously...its not a game!!
speaking about myself.... without islam.... i think i'd have long commited suicide! People might say well ur crazy... no i'm not! This life is hard... there are many challenges that come our way...and if ur not connected with the one who created you.... you will never find the strength to go on.
Islam is a complete way of life... its not a one day thing.. not one hour thing.. .its a WAY OF LIFE!! Islam teaches you how to live! period!
Now many might not like restriction... but this is a state of mind. No one is running after me with a stick telling me if u don't pray u'll be hit!! But... when you love God so much... you wouldn't miss prayer... cause its a meeting between you and your Lord..one to one! If you had a meeting with a girlfriend or a boyfriend... you won't miss it at all.... well... to many Muslims... God is above all... above our families, friends, and even our life! This is why.. we love Allah and we worship him for this love not out of simply being obligated to do so.
And these muslims that i am referring to...are generally the ones who come to such places as islamic forums to speak for the religion of God... to defend islam to the fullest... out of love! The other muslims... who have nothing to do with islam won't even bother come here... they have "better" places to be.
Now why do Muslims get really upset when one offends their religion... simply put... if u loved ur wife/husband so much... i don't think you'd stand a criticism about them... now our love to ISlam and Allah is far greater than any worldly love... and because of that we do not accept any insult to islam. Now you wonder why do we bother about other muslims..... its the bond of islamic brotherhood and sisterhood.... there are people i see on the net... sisters that i get to know... and when some thing bad happens to them... you would see tears in my eyes... why? i don't know them really... only over the net... but there is a bond of sisterhood that grows fast... that is far beyond explanation.... bond of love...for the sake of Allah!
now these are just some thoughts....all our non muslims friend might or might not really be able to comprehend what i'm trying to say... but... the reason we muslims try to explain to the world is... we want everyone to have the peace we have inside!!!
Today... my friend and I walked around university.... we picked people randomly and asked if they mind us asking few questions... they are simply.. have u heard about islam? where? what do u know? and the results were SAD!!!!!! People don't know what islam is.. and when they know.. they only know its a religion... where did they hear about it... MEDIA!!!! OUR WORST ENEMY!!
I personally do not like TV so... can't judge it... some of you might say but there are good things sometimes.. yes yes i know.. i still dont' like it. I think i can use my time in better things... but the thing is.... Muslims take the time to learn about Christianity, Judaism or whatever... and most of all about their faith.. muslims (and i'm speaking about the muslims who believe from all their hearts) do not take their faith lightly... they must be 100% convinced that they are on the right path... that they are walking towards God... only then can one proceed..... so dear Christians and other non muslims... u are seriously wasting ur time preaching here... its not going to do any good.. i have studied bible before learning islam believe it or not.... it simply has pushed me towards islam more!! So.. u can tell me as many verses about JEsus as you want... been there, read them all... reading them again will mean nothing... and i'm sure this is the same for many others...
as many of my brothers and sisters said... this place is for those interested in learning about islam... we don't try to convert anyone.. just wish that people will, with good manners, ask questions... need clarifications.. and we will answer... to the best of our knowledge. if you are here simply to argue... u are wasting ur time!
= )
hope i didn't offend anyone.... just my thoughts
peace to all
Rasha
vancouver
19-03-2002, 01:48
I put this on a different web-site(I was disgusted with the racism and total mis-understanding of those on the web-site who were giving a false impression and a negative one of Islam) on Dec 1st 2001 and I have a lot of friends who are muslim. I also have friends who were muslim but have become Jehovah's Witnesses. Fundamentally there is not too much difference. We submit to our creator and make our religion a total way of life. Actually the early christians were originally called 'The Way'. :-
Muslims are people believing in an omnipotent, loving God. They recognize the wisdom of submitting to his will. They appreciate the guidance he has provided them through messengers entrusted with devine knowledge. The first six of these messengers were:- Adam, Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and Jesus as major prophets of God. But a seventh, they believe has been exalted above all other messengers:- The prophet Muhammad.
The name Islam is meaningful, denoting submission, in this context to the law and will of Allah. A person going this way of submission is termed a "Muslim", the active participle of the word Islam. Allah means "The God".(in Quran 2,700 times).
Muhammad bin Abdullah(the son of Abdullah), the founder of Islam was born in Mecca about 570 A.D. By this time christianity had gone away from Christ's teachings.
Muhammad started declaring he was God's messenger when he was about 40 years old, first to his friends and relatives then to others. The actual beginning of the Islamic era was 622 A.D. when he went to Medina. The Jews opposed his peaceful requests to them.
Islam is more than a religion, it is a way of life.
Within a century of Muhammad's death, an Arabic Empire, larger than the Roman Empire at it's peak stretched from India across North Africa to Spain, helping transmit inventions that enriched western civilization. It made outstanding contributions in the fields of Law, Mathematics, Astronomy, History, Literature, Geography, Philosophy, Architecture, Medicine, Music and the Social Sciences.
:) glad to see some who realy know what i'm talking about.. just one correction...
"Muhammad bin Abdullah(the son of Abdullah), the founder of Islam was born in Mecca about 570 A.D. By this time christianity had gone away from Christ's teachings."
Mohammad peace be upon him is NOT the founder of islam... ISlam is the religion of God... since Adam... through Ibrahim, Moses, Jesus and al the prophets.. Mohammad peace be upon him just simply brought back the same teachings... after people have deviated and moved away from God!
I, too, understand what you are saying, Rasha. It is definitely more than just a religion--it is an all-encompassing way to think of life, not to mention a way to live. In Christianity we have a saying, that we do not have a religion, but a relationship--a relationship with the Lord.
well.... in my opinion...islam is more than just a relationship with God...its a relationship with god...and also how to deal and relate to the universe around you with all its creations!
Salam to all!
How is everyone? Mashallah a very active forum, ….always threads with replies and responses…..I hope members also view the other links and valuable information on the other forums. ….There are certain topics you might find difficult to understand, the issues at the house, the concern about a specific hadith or verse, et.c. Please do visit the other forums.
The sister has brought a good thread, sharing her views and feelings about her contact with members here. Now as a certain member has proven their ‘typing’ skills way off the limits and rules put by IWC, there are also other members, who have showed their utmost respect for one and another, so I am grateful to them. I have put together some criteria for all to see…;
Now I will be contacting the other moderators on my proposal, that, every member i.e. visiting and participating here at this forum will have to follow or accept.
>Everyone will have 3 warnings, if for some reason they go towards the bad or abusive the rules. They will be notified with warnings about their performance.
>If the user, writes something that is not allowed or insulting others, it will be judged upon the words and the user will be given a warning or the message will be simply deleted.
>If they continue with such behaviour, the user will either receive another warning(s) or they will simply be removed from here.
>In some cases the removal of that user will happen without any warning, if the ‘crime’ committed is a great one against the rules put by IWC. If the user has violated the rules to an extent, the moderator’s will chose what to do within 24 hours.
Now I hope I have made myself clear. This is an excellent site, why open a bottle of water from the side, while it can be open easily from the top, without destroying anything. Rules there to protect you.
This section on the site is the most ‘vibrant’ and many members come here to discuss. We have new members who have joined us, we have old members who pop in sometimes, two heads are better than one…as it goes.
So, I hope we have a good journey on the net, and remember, if you are given an spoon, use it properly, some sites don’t even allow Muslims, yet we have allowed both Muslims and non Muslims here, so big is our spoon. Use it and don’t bend it, and don’t even try and break it…for the result, will only be for you to view the glorious and sweet smell of discussions..
Sorry to go on…but with the similar theme to the sister, I hope that we don’t try and violate the rules, come on, will I enter your house and change the wallpaper without asking or start stripping it off, I will ask about it, right?. ……..The first thing I will do is acknowledge the opportunity that I received when I was invited to your house and changing something or ‘preaching’ something in the house is way off my aims….so use IWC to learn, not to abusive, this is for all members, black, blue, yellow, Christian, Muslim and anything, man or women or even both (if there are any)…
Take care and discuss in a healthy mode, remember there is always someone who knows more than you…!
Sadiq (Moderator of this forum)
LivingforChrist
20-03-2002, 04:59
Here are my nonagressive thoughts on your post which I find dissappointing because you tell us non-muslims to see things from your perspective and try and understand yet you flat out refuse to understand Christianity. I know this because of all the stereotypes you used in your post.
How would you feel if I was telling you guys to stop being terrorists?! I AM IN NO WAY SAYING YOU ARE TERRORISTS, I AM MERELY USING A STEREOTYPE TO ENHANCE MY POINT. True Christians are just as devoted, just as loving, and jsut as God-centered as any Muslim. There are however, "Christians" who say they are christians because tehy go to church on sunday with their family. Obviously it is not all of, or even part of their life. But please do not accept the twisted, watered down, mutated "Christian" mask people wear.
To see wha Christianity is like, look for a real Christian, not the average American who just says they are because everyone else says they are.
Please please please please do not accept stereotypes as truth.
vancouver
20-03-2002, 12:06
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-03-02 AT 11:28 AM (GMT)]Yes that is true. If people took time out to read the bible and have discussions on it they would see a common thread thoughout the bible with the outworking of the first prophesy resulting in the full conclusion of all God's purposes for mankind. The bible is much more detailed than the Quran and covers the history of man from 4026 BC accurately from Adam. It even prophesies another 1,000 years plus into the future when man will finally become fully reconciled to God and God's purpose for the earth will be fully realised and the seventh day of creation will be closed. Then after that who knows the wonders that God has in store for perfect mankind who will live forever on the earth. Islam are supposed to accept the bible as well as the Quran anyway due to the fact that it covers all the other prophets and I am sure that Muhammad accepted it as the word of God.
Glad to see some responses to my posts...
>Here are my nonagressive thoughts on your post which I find
>dissappointing because you tell us non-muslims to see things
>from your perspective and try and understand yet you flat
>out refuse to understand Christianity.
Now the word 'rufuse', this is a bit too hard for me, wouldnt you say that?. I have not ever rufused to learn anything regarding christianity or anything other. So i have told my 'feelings' regarding this forum and i have 'only' asked you to see islam. This is an comparitive section, were you compare...
>I know this because of all the stereotypes you used in your post.
I told you what i saw. These are the thoughts that i have recieved from members here, as the wise saying goes....everyone has there black sheep, so good and bad on both.
>How would you feel if I was telling you guys to stop being
>terrorists?! I AM IN NO WAY SAYING YOU ARE TERRORISTS, I AM
>MERELY USING A STEREOTYPE TO ENHANCE MY POINT.
You can say what you want, but if you want to say anything here, then you have to obey the rules. I dont judge 'christianty' based on what you do, i look up at the book of the religion to find out more about that religion. So to say a thing, its up to you, but if you want to know a real muslim, then read the quran and you'll find the example..
True
>Christians are just as devoted, just as loving, and jsut as
>God-centered as any Muslim. There are however, "Christians"
>who say they are christians because tehy go to church on
>sunday with their family. Obviously it is not all of, or
>even part of their life. But please do not accept the
>twisted, watered down, mutated "Christian" mask people wear.
Yes, there are good christians, i did NOT brush the whole christians with one colour. Just my thoughts and everyone is entitled to their opinon...
>To see wha Christianity is like, look for a real Christian,
>not the average American who just says they are because
>everyone else says they are.
I'll take your advice, but i do see many christians, i have my hair cut by a fellow chrisitan. So dont take it the wrong way, i just told everyone, to learn from each other, and to learn more about islam, for this is an islamic site?...
>Please please please please do not accept stereotypes as
>truth.
Same goes for you and everyone...!
Sadiq!
well I am confused certainly.... I do not what I said that may have offended you. I re-read my post just now.... I was talking about Muslims all along! I do not see where I steriotyped and said Christians are not devout or they don't like god or they are not secure or whatever u might have understood. I was just explaining our thoughts as Muslims.
I don't recall telling u to see things from my prespectives... I simply told you how I think so u get an idea why we say things, why others get upset etc. I never said: "if you want to stay here u better believe this"
"True Christians are just as devoted, just as loving, and jsut as God-centered as any Muslim." yes I know I met one yesterday... such a sweet heart individual
"There are however, "Christians" who say they are christians because tehy go to church on sunday with their family." That's in every faith.
"But please do not accept the twisted, watered down, mutated "Christian" mask people wear." I have no clue what ur talking about... I think I said that I have studied the bible on my own to see for myself. I have 3 different copies of the bible right now at home... you might wonder what does a muslim need these for.... well i like to study things for myself.
Believe me.... 2 and half years ago... I was not the way I am... If u saw me, you'd say... typical European or something.... I thought of christianity.... read the bible, studied it etc.... didn't find what i need.... read the quraan.... read about islam and the sayings of the prophet peace be upon him.... and THAT has changed my life to the muslimah I am today. So... I do not know how does this show steriotyping!! I don't recal that any of you (non muslims on this forum) have said they have read the whole quraan on their own before speaking!
well since we're at it...if interested in reading it... go to www.quraan.com
And i'm not referring to NutCurtain's attempt to give me few verses from some article he found in an anti islamic site... I am referring to READING... sitting there.... going through it... reading!
"To see wha Christianity is like, look for a real Christian" Just told you... saw one yesterday. Have seen few over the past year... some are nice... some are nice to those like them (christians) and some are way out of it and dont really know what in the world they are doing!
"Please please please please do not accept stereotypes as truth" I hope this is a rule for everyone of us... I personally know that there are even good jews.... as a matter of fact, I had two jews teachers last year whom I have developed close friendship with. and I mean friendship... I really admired a lot of things about them.
"The bible is much more detailed than the Quran and covers the history of man from 4026 BC accurately from Adam" Vancouver... that just proves you didn't read the Quraan.... cause the Quraan too speaks about things since Adam, since creation...etc.
"It even prophesies another 1,000 years plus into the future when man will finally become fully reconciled to God"
The quraan tells us what will happen till the day we are in heaven or hell! and what will happen there too!
"Islam are supposed to accept the bible as well as the Quran anyway due to the fact that it covers all the other prophets and I am sure that Muhammad accepted it as the word of God"
You bet... the ORIGINAL bible is what we accept... not the teachings of Paul.... not the modern bibles.... Indeed in the time of the prophets.... almost all those who were Christians in Arabia converted due to the fact that it was mentioned in their book .. the coming of Mohammad peace be upon him. I'm talking about christians who were really devout and stuff... you don't have to believe this fact... but its in our history.
please don't start attacking me... this is just a fact of history. Now you might wonder is there such thing as an original history... i think if u go to one that is really really old and probably in different language than english u might become Jahovah's witnesses as its the closest Christian sect to what that bible might have... and if u really have an open mind and if God decides to show u truth... u'll be a muslim for it is in there that all the proofs are.
anyways..... you don't have to believe me... these are my beliefs however!
p.s. sorry if my original post has offended anyone.... It was a simple explanation of my thoughts and was mostly on islam. I still don't understand where I was steriotyping...please kindly explain so i won't do same mistake again.
Greetings All!
Rasha: there was not one offensive word in your posts above aimed at Christians. Frankly, I find your willingness to share a bit of your personal story very refreshing and helpful in understanding Islam, and that's why I started coming here after Sept 11.
It does seem to me that "Living For Christ" is trying to say something about a perception of Islam that was not directed at anyone in particular on this thread. Rather, s/he was attempting to say that there is a tendency s/he perceives in Islam that turns people in the West off. I would counter, however, that Christians do the same thing that "Living For Christ" is criticising.
Personally, when I was very young, I picked on my siblings quite a bit, despite the fact that my parents and teachers taught me that this is unchristian behavior. Then, when I went to secular college, I started drinking and experimented with drugs and sex for about a year. I became very depressed during this period. Catholicism does not teach any of this -- so I simply was not following my faith. That behavior should not be an indictment on Catholicism.
I underwent a "conversion" around the age of 20 or 21, and started taking Catholicism more seriously. Yet, I'm still not perfect. God ain't finished with me yet.
I did look at some other religions during this period of "conversion". I attempted to read the Qur'an, but it did not do much for me at that time in my life. I went to a Bhuddist priest and tried to learn to meditate. I dabbled in some "New Age" reading, and also read the Tao Te Ching and the Upanishads. I also went to an Assemblies of God Evangelical Protestant church for awhile. But eventually, I came home to Catholicism -- the religion of my parents.
At the age of 24, I broke off an engagement to a woman I was dating in order to enter the Catholic seminary and pursue a life of celibacy. My view was very much like you describe Rasha. I wanted to place Allah above all things: even above a wife and children. I wanted to be married to God!
However, while I was in the seminary, I underwent another "conversion". As I learned to read the Bible in it's original languages and studied the writings of Catholic saints, I began to understand that Allah reveals herself not only in specifically religious acts, such as prayer times, but in the everyday circumstances of our life. I also began to understand that our relationships with other people are a way of expressing our love for God. Thus, I began to understand that my natural desire to marry a woman and have children might be my personal calling from God as the means to express that I love Allah above all else. It took me six years to reach this point, so I am not sure I can communicate what I mean very well in a short story like this.
Anyway, I eventually decided to leave the Catholic seminary, met a woman whom I now love deeply, and married her last year. Yet, through my experience in the seminary, I gained a deep love for my Catholic tradition and I believe the experience led me to what Tita is trying to describe: I began to see the point of religious practice as facilitating a relationship with God based on loving trust. A person who lovingly trust Allah will naturally want to discern God's will in every moment of their lives, and will naturally seek to submit to Allah's will knowing that God will make things work for the good.
Personally, I believe that all religions are attempts by cultures to describe a mystical sense that we all have that there is a higher power who loves us and cares for us deeply. Religious acts, whether the Muslim "salah", the Catholic "Mass", Bhuddist "Meditation", or a Protestant simply spending time with the Bible, or whatever -- all such acts are aimed at fostering and nourishing this relationship.
Almost all of us who begin to take a religious tradition seriously are lead by God to many of the same conclusions. We all oppose murder of the innocent. We all turn away from addictions to drugs and alcohol. We all come to conclusions that extra-marital sexual activity is opposed to God's will. We all try to develop regular habits of prayer. We all want world peace and seek a sense of the brotherhood and sisterhood of humanity. We all sense the divine presence within us somehow, though we may express it differently.
What I find frustrating about discussing religion is that we seldom seek common ground. Both Christians and Muslims are quick to try to prove that "my religion is the right way, and yours is wrong". For that matter, within Chriatianity, Protestants and Catholics do the same to each other, as I suspect some Islamic groups do with each other.
Furthermore, we are too quick to point to the bad examples in each other's religions. For example, a fellow Christian, but Protestant, Netcurtains points out on another thread that Adolf Hitler was raised in a Catholic household, but says nothing of the good that Mother Teresa of Calcutta did. Hitler rejected Christianity entirely by the time he led the Nazi party, but we Catholics are still blamed for him. This is similar to Westerners generally blaming Islam for creating Osama Bin Laden.
The truth is that every religion is made up of sinful people. There are bad examples everywhere. The truth is also that every religion has what we Catholics call "saints", which literally means "holy one".
Personally, I feel it is hard at times for me to simultaneously believe that Jesus Christ is Lord and God, and believe that Muslims are saved at the same time. Yet, ultimately, I do believe this. I suspect that in the next life, our consciousnesses will be so expanded and so enlightened that many of the apparent contradictions of this life will make perfect sense.
With this belief, I believe that the goal of a comparative religion forum should be to highlight our similarities without denying our differences. We should assume that the people we are speaking with already have a relationship with God. We should be able to share what is beautiful in our traditions without necessarily trying to convert someone who is already in a relationship with God to another religious expression. We should endeavor to find common ground, rather than seeking contradictions and weaknesses with others. We should be able to honestly express our prejudices in the spirt of seeking real clarification, rather than the spirit of trying to prove someone wrong. We should listen to each other without expecting that we are all going to change to one religion. Who knows, maybe we can learn from one another without changing religions?
Well, I've rambled on long enough.
Peace and Blessings!
jcecil3
Glad no one is offended...
well the major difference i believe between christinity and Islam is the belief about Who is God? Jesus or Allah?
now to you.. it might not mean much as we all refer to GOD...but let me tell u.. it does make a difference... think of it this way.. how would u feel if ur wife calls u Peter when ur name is John!!! I don't think you will say.. oh i know what she meant!!
not only do we call God by different name... we also give him different attributes... think of this.. if ur wife keeps calling u an engineer when ur a doctor...i don't think u'll like it! This is the difference between Muslim and christian prespective of God... Muslims say He is One... no son, nothing... one not trinity.. none is like him... etc. Christians say no he is trinity, Jesus is god, jesus is son.. whatever ur sect believes!! Now these are two different things...
I personally think everyone should not worry about the teachings of the religions first.. .cause all these are very very very similar... but one must look at God.. think and study... see which religion best describes God... makes more sense... if u find it.. then that is what u follow!!
Its not the same to be a christian, Muslim or Jew.... there are major differences as i said in belief... and thus... we can't all be right .. one must be right... now its up to u to decide what u think is right.... we are each accountable for our actions and beliefs in front of God! Islam says.. there is no compulsion of religion.. all i can do is provide you with the knowledge i have... the rest is ur job... to accept or reject.... and only God will judge you on that!!
vancouver
23-03-2002, 14:51
You asked me a question about God destroying the governments on a BB that appears to have been closed.
Daniel 2:44-49 ***
44 "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite; 45 forasmuch as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and [that] it crushed the iron, the copper, the molded clay, the silver and the gold. The grand God himself has made known to the king what is to occur after this. And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation of it is trustworthy."
46 At that time King Neb·u·chad·nez'zar himself fell down upon his face, and to Daniel he paid homage, and he said to offer even a present and incense to him. 47 The king was answering Daniel and saying: "Truly the God of YOU men is a God of gods and a Lord of kings and a Revealer of secrets, because you were able to reveal this secret." 48 Consequently the king made Daniel someone great, and many big gifts he gave to him, and he made him the ruler over all the jurisdictional district of Babylon and the chief prefect over all the wise men of Babylon. 49 And Daniel, for his part, made a request of the king, and he appointed over the administration of the jurisdictional district of Babylon Sha'drach, Me'shach and A·bed'ne·go, but Daniel was in the court of the king.
*** Revelation 19:19 - 20:3 ***
19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage the war with the one seated on the horse and with his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who render worship to its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which [sword] proceeded out of his mouth. And all the birds were filled from the fleshy parts of them.
20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he seized the dragon, the original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 And he hurled him into the abyss and shut [it] and sealed [it] over him, that he might not mislead the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After these things he must be let loose for a little while.
In Daniel it prophesied about all the world powers coming on the earth until finally it reached our time when this kingdom of God would destroy all earthly governments and rule over mankind instead. In Revelation it says the same thing and then goes on to say what will happen to Satan who was the main cause of mankind's woes.
i certainly don't remember asking... sorry lots of things to do in life that you hardly remember small things any more.
But anyways... about powers, in islam all i personally know is that the prophet prophesized that the muslims will be weak, then they shall regain power after the coming of Jesus. After that, there will be left only the bad people on earth upon which the day of resurrection will be called and then we all will be held to account.
from there, we are off either to hell or heavens. The earth will be distoryed for we won't be here... we will be in another place, Allah knows best.
I am not so sure on this topic as i must admit i didn't have much time to study it yet, i am mostly learning the islamic character and manners, as well as obligations of a muslim. So.... i haven't gone into this much. Maybe some other muslims on the board who do know can help in this discussion.
vancouver
24-03-2002, 00:01
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 23-03-02 AT 11:03 PM (GMT)]Regarding your original question. It was after I said about God destroying the worldly governments to make the earth fit for the worthy. All you said was:- Says who?
Did you know that when God created everything and put Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden and gave them the mandate to fill the earth and subdue it he had a purpose in mind. His purpose was to fill the earth with perfect humans having all the animals in subjection and making the earth beautiful. When Satan through the serpent interrupted that purpose God made a promise at Genesis 3:15 to make matters right and see his purpose through. That promise concerned the Messiah and the balancing of the scales in regard to Adam's perfect life being ransomed by the Messiah's perfect life.A life for a life in effect.There is no hell except the fanciful one found in mythology. God created man from the dust of the earth and it is the dust of the earth that he returns to(sheol in hebrew or hades in greek). God is just, he created man from non-existence and if those he created do not want to serve him he gives them back their original non-existence. After all they could say "we never asked for life". It would not be just for anyone to receive eternal torment as some would like to believe. Many will be resurrected back to the earth and those who did not know of God's ways and purposes will be taught and given the opportunity of also living forever on the earth. This will be after Armageddon(the war of God against the earthly governments and those with their mark(those who support the governments and look to them instead of god for their salvation and peace)). That in effect is what the bible promises for the meek.(the meek shall inherit the earth).
when i said "says who", sorry i was being sarcastic.
the thing is, you were speaking as if these are rules we all agree upon. The thing you missed is, these are rules that YOU believe in, I personally don't as they are not taught by the Quraan and Islam. This is why I said, says who!
The stories you are taught in the bible are distorted or at least i believe so!
so its useless to tell me that. I believer that God knew since he created us that we are not perfect and we will make sins. When Allah told the angels I shall create man and put them on the earth, The angels replied, "Why would you create things that are make corruption on the earth" to which Allah replied, I know things which you do not know.
Then Adam was created and Allah told the angels to prostrate to him. They all did, except Satan who thought he is superior to him. When Adam and Eve went to live in Heavens, Satan told them to eat from the tree, and when Adam took the apple, he and Eve were sent to live on the earth. (which was something predestined to them!)
ohh and about what we believe will happen later on, in day of judgement. Well, we all will be resurrected in another place, not on earth. The blessed ones whom Allah is pleased with will be taken to heavens right away, the ones whom are believers, i.e. believe in Allah, that God is One, but still have to be accountable for some bad deeds and all the rest will be punished. The non believers will be in hell forever. The believers will be punished just so that justice will be served, and then they will enter paradise!!!
You can believe other wise if u wish.. this is our belief... you can agree or disagree its up to you. But please don't argue as this is not an issue of opinion!!
vancouver
24-03-2002, 00:37
This start in the Garden of Eden is the whole basis on which the bible was built on. Without that there would be no point to a Messiah. The whole history of Adam , Noah, Abraham, Moses, and King David would be a lie if this were not so. God made man perfect in Adam and Eve and they did have their beginning on the earth. That was the whole point of God taking so much time in our terms of time in preparing the earth with so much beauty and variety. He did not make the earth in order to destroy it later. Without this belief everything falls down and there would be a void. Jesus believed in all of this history and he knew why he had to give up his life as a perfect man.
vancouver
24-03-2002, 00:43
It is good to know one anothers beliefs even if we disagree. But I strongly believe each individual should have the opportunity of deciding for themselves what is the right way to go. My religion for some strange reason is banned in quite a lot of Islam countries. We had huge problems in catholic countries also but we were able to use the constitutional rights of those countries to get the bans lifted through the courts. These rights are not enjoyed in many Islam countries so we have to work underground as it were to be successful.
Just to let you know, i always tell my friends and family that i have a dream (which i know will never come true) but i can dream! I said, I want to get an island, and on this island, i will not let anyone live, except those who are TRUE muslims... those who know the rules 100% and wish to live by the rules. Which means, I do not want to hear music, see a TV, or a theater, or anything there. I want to rebuild the islamic society that the prophet built.
:)
now you said u can't work in many islamic countries... simply because they "try" to be islamic. If we had a true islamic state, everyone has a right to practice their faith, but no preaching is allowed!
which i think what many of your people try to do, and thus you guys are banned! :) sorry...
ok.. as u wish...
Allah put it best in the Quraan: "To you be your religion, and to me my religion (Islamic Monotheism)."
I have been visiting and reading the back and forths in various subjects here, and find it quite fascinating. I am by no means as well read as some and find some stuff rather intimidating, only by that I mean in the scholarly way the debates go. I am interested in looking at different perspectives to gain understanding, and I have started to get an idea of Islam here. We all don't live in a vacuum and we need to speak to one another and respect each other in this world, and I don't just mean this religion or that, I mean everyone on earth. We are just a blip in time and it is too precious to waste on ignorance, intolerance, hatred and such. Just a thought, and a hope from the heart...........Jihsgo
hello jihsgo...
welcome to our community, I am glad you have been reading and learning some things, hope u will keep doing it as this is one of our duties as human beings, to keep learning and looking around for truths.
plz feel free to ask about any issues not discussed and we will all try to help out by providing some information inshaAllah.
Muslims, why are you all gone now... everyone is quiet these days :) do'nt leave ur sister alone :P
vancouver
25-03-2002, 00:43
I have also noticed many members have gone on holidays or something!!!
Greetings Jihsgo!
Good thoughts and well put. Don't be intimidated. Sometimes, those of us trying to do all the scholarly stuff are too verbose and arrogant to see the simple truths that are right under our noses. All the prophets taught humility above scholarship.
Peace and Blessings!
jcecil3
Doesn't one sort of lead to the other? I mean, if you have a relationship with God, naturally you will learn how to relate to everything around you. And if you don't have a relationship with the Lord, your relationship with the rest of the world is pretty much irrelevant.
I respect what jcecil has said about how we tend to have an attitude of "I'm right, you're wrong", in our religions. Also, we all have a tendency to look at the worst people in other's religions and blame that religion for that person. We should not do these things.
However, I must agree with Rasha that we cannot all be correct--all, in this context, being Jews, Muslims and Christians. (Of course, we could expand this group to include every system of belief.) Jesus cannot be God Himself and just a Prophet. God can't require belief alone and belief plus works for salvation. I could go on, but you get the picture: somebody is right and somebody is wrong. It is up to each of us to ask the Lord to help us see the truth and then to honestly seek for it ourselves.
In the meantime, it is good to remember the things that we do have in common. We all seek to live a moral life, a life that helps others and does no harm. We all seek to have peace in our communities by having peaceful, nurturing homes. We all try to express our love for the Lord by loving our fellow humans. We can emphasize those things without in any way diminishing our own individual beliefs. And, of course, we can discuss the differences in our beliefs in a friendly way, as we do here.
yes... islam teaches you how to relate to God, and the teachings deal with everything including how to relate to the world around you. I think you still need the teachings as it is the way to go, or else everyone will pick whichever way makes more sense to him.
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