Religion V The Press

[Netcurtains]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 19-03-02 AT 10:15 PM (GMT)]Many religions blame the press for their woes.
I remember just 7 years ago the Labour Party used to blame to press for everything. Now of course the Torys blame the press. The press has given the Christian faith a real going over - if you believe the papers every anglican vicar is either *** or running off with flower arrangers and every baptist is a fundamentalist and every catholic priest is either an alcoholic or a child abuser. Muslims of course (from the press) are all failing at school or jihadists.

I have given this some thought. Please don't call me preaching or evil or nutty - I am trying.

The Bible FUNDAMENTALLY speaking talks about NEW NEW NEW. BORN AGAIN. NEW WINE. NEW IDEAS. Too often Chirstians and Muslims want to turn the clock back to some non-existant "goldern era". Let me tell you that "golden era" (if it ever existed) was a "golden era" IMHO because the religion was NEW, REVOLUTIONARY and at the FOREFRONT OF HUMAN ACHIEVEMENTS. To my mind the press is HELPING us to see our failures, it is not our enemy.

We should aim not just to be on par with aithiest media thinking but MILES ahead of them. Looking back to the past is not the way foreward. IMHO.

I'm not sure of many things, but I am sure I'm not nuts evil or even a triffle ecentric. Believe me I'm boring.

I am a born follower - come on you religious guys give me and the rest of humanity something worth following. Think new, radical and interesting.

Netty!

[vancouver]

The thought of God taking people in modern times from all the various religions and national groups into a brotherhood of peace is radical don't you think.

[jcecil3]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-03-02 AT 02:23 AM (GMT)]Greetings Netcurtains!

I completely agree with you, and I am working in my own capacity to shake some things up in my Church. I think I have seen Nzingha take some stands within Islam that are indicative of a "progressive" interpretation that still honors her tradition.

I personally believe that it is possible to be deeply committed to a religious tradition, and even protective of it, without becoming a mindless zombie as the media portrays.

As you probably know by now, I am Roman Catholic, with a pretty traditional Catholic understanding of the Trinity, Bible, Sacraments, etc...Yet, here are some things I'd like to see in my own church:

-- Women priests (they seem to be mentioned in 1 Tim 5:2 and other places in the Greek)
-- Married priests (Peter, the first Pope, was married)
-- Female imagery used for worship of God (Just like in Proverbs)
-- Inclusive language in reference to the people of God (as the authors intended)
-- A more collegial, democratic, and consensual form of church governance and decision making (like the church of Acts)
-- Opposition to the death penalty equal to the current opposition to abortion (following the teachings of our founder)
-- More effort at promoting peace and opposing war
-- More forceful statements defending human rights and condemning specific human rights abuses such as torture, rape, false imprisonment, slavery, and terrorism
-- Blessing of *** unions (only 5 problematic passages of Scripture address homosexuality, and I believe that these objections can be answered in an intellectually and Biblically responsible fashion)
-- Greater use of Biblical language in the cause of liberation and a political preferential option for the poor (The whole point of much of the prophetic literature)
-- More effort to erradicate racism (see Gal 3:28, and my wife and I are different races)
-- More ecumenical dialogue and working with other religions on common cause issues such as social service and alleviating poverty
-- Incorporating more meaningful sacramental symbols from the cultures of developing world (i.e. -- let Latin Americans use a corn tortilla for Eucharist, rather than wheat bread that looks like fish food)
-- More charismatic worship in the Catholic liturgy and more local community building
-- Better services for the promotion of family, such as how to's of raising children and reducing divorce than provided by an all male celibate clergy (though I do feel some people are called to celibacy, and their calling continues to have value in the church)
-- More programs to help addicts free themselves for healthy living
-- More adult education programs to feed the mind after graduation
-- More accountability for the clergy (Let's figure out how to end all the scandals in a way that is compassionate and merciful but effective)
-- Christians, Muslims, and all religious people need to learn to "loosen up" sometimes and enjoy life as God gives it to us.

When I'm not at work or spending time on the IWC, I teach a class in the Catechism of the Catholic Church with a progressive slant. I am also working on writing a theological position paper on women's ordination. I tutor inner city youth. I also bring things I learned in seminary to the board-room as a manager in an information technology firm. I am a veetarian. Yet, I find time to go dancing, have a drink with friends, do yoga, or catch a movie and read a novel. So, I am not sitting by idly agreeing with you in theory. I am trying to put my beliefs in practice.

Yet, despite my "progressive" tendencies, I'm a regular Mass attending, daily Divine Office praying, Rosary praying, monthly Confession going, pro-life, apolegetic theology spouting, married Catholic with a full time secular job. I spent six years living celibacy while in the seminary. In many ways, I appear to be identical with the conservatives the press and media ridicule.

I know it may sound like I am bragging -- but nobody knows me here in person, so I'm just throwing ideas out there where they can get out to others.

I'd be very interested to hear the views and actions of "progressive" Muslims on topics like these (particularly the role of women).

Peace and Blessings!
jcecil3

[BinZiad]

Peace to all members!

Now, this is from a brother, who is not 'yet' joined here, but these are his views regarding this post, read on...

"..So, why is there no ‘reform’ movement in Islam a la Christianity or Judaism? Because Judaism and Christianity lost their original scriptures. Words of man were mixed up with the words of God in their scriptures making the whole thing fallible. One can find hundreds of statements in the Bible that can be tested and found untrue. Or statements that contradict each other. There is not a single such instance in the Qur’an, and there will never be.

Islam did not. Islam was never deformed that it should need reform. It is not dated that it should need to be updated. Its message is as true today as it was yesterday. All its commands are as life giving today as they were yesterday; so will they be tomorrow. It remains as the eternal beacon of light as humanity jumps from one extreme to the other in its ignorance.

Right and wrong are eternal. Definitions of good and evil have to be constant. Otherwise, they will lose all meaning. In a world of shifting standards of good, there is no good. It is a great blessing for humanity that Islam provides that constant.

If the entire world agrees that homosexuality is OK, Islam will still call it a great abomination. If the entire world agrees to destroy the institution of family, Islam will still be there to uphold it. If the entire world agrees that sickness is health and health is sickness, Islam will still be there to remove the confusion and safeguard health. You cannot ban light and legislate darkness. Better, try to see the light yourself...."

So i agree with it mostly, islam does NOT need reform, for it is perfect in every sense and if the 'islam' is practised, then and only then we will see the success coming,....got to go...

BinZiad

[vancouver]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-03-02 AT 01:29 AM (GMT)]Many have tried to find inconsistencies in the bible and many have tried to find contradictions in the bible. Many have tried to find names of places and people in the bible that never existed. To this date no evidence against the authenticity of the bible has been found. So all the effort disbelievers in a God have made to find the bible untrue have failed.

God is unchangeable and his standards have always remained high. It is only the low standards of mankind that he has tolerated. That does not mean that he approves of these low standards. No he has been very patient wanting people to return to him but his patience will not last forever. He will act against those who have no respect for his high standards.

It is the bible that shows people how to live and be approved by God. Those who wish to find fault with it don't want to be accountable to God and want to make their own right and wrong just as did Adam and Eve.

[jcecil3]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-03-02 AT 05:24 PM (GMT)]Greetings BinZiad!

I do agree with you that the laws of Allah are eternal. However, I also believe that humanity's understanding of Allah's law is progressively developing, and has been since the dawn of time.

In other words, God isn't done with us yet. In this sense, each new generation can critically reflect on the revelation already given and gain new insights as new questions are put to the ancient writings.

Regarding homosexuality, I admit that my personal view on this subject is different than the official position of my Church. As I read the Qur'an a few months ago, I do not remember running across a specific verse on this subject, but the Bible does have five passages that seem to address the subject as sinful. My reasons for reinterpreting these five Biblical passages and taking a stand different from the official stance of my Church would take quite some time to explain. At a high-level, let me just say that I believe that God did not intend the statements in the Bible to apply to people who are born with a genetic predisposition to be attracted to members of the same gender.

Whether I am right or wrong on this issue does not matter. The broader issue is whether a writing given to humanity by a prophet centuries ago is meant to be a static and unchanging set of rules, or is it meant to be a springboard for further theological reflection?

I agree with Netcurtains that each of the prophets and Jesus showed a remarkable freedom in interpreting prior traditions for their own time and circumstances. I even believe that Mohammed did this in remarkable ways in regards to women in his day.

For example, it is my understanding that among the Arab tribes, women were considered chattle with absolutely no human rights prior to Mohammed. The Qur'an gives a woman the right to declare a divorce and inherit property, and commands husbands to treat their wives with love and respect. This was radical in Mohammed's day. Thus, one could argue that what was revealed by Allah through the Qur'an is a radical appreciation for the dignity of women. The question for today then becomes whether modern day Islam is following the same spirit of the Qur'an in the modern day treatment of Islamic women.

In other words, is the Qur'an to be interpreted as the first word in a progressive development towards understanding Allah's eternal will towards women, or is it to be interpreted as Allah's final word on the subject of women. Perhaps Muslims are currently following Allah's will for women -- that's a question only Muslims can answer. Yet, it is a question that should not be dodged by simply saying that everything new is wrong and from the devil.

I believe that this is what Netty is trying to ask: Is everything new really to be considered wrong just because it's new? Or can we look at new interpretations of ancient traditions as a consistent development of the intent of Allah in his prior revelations as they apply to our modern situation?


Peace and Blessings!
jcecil3

[Lulua]

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Greetings and good day to all.

I would humbly like to shed my own insight into this topic of religious reform. Actually, I think that the title of this thread would have suited better if it would have been given that very title: religious reform.

anyways, let me expand slightly on what Bin Ziad has mentioned...that Islam is something for all times, for all peoples, and not consistent with only one time in the history of man. This is not to say that it must remain stagnant. In fact, it should grow with the needs and tendencies of mankind. Not introducing anything new, nor omitting anything from it, but rather growing with man as mankind grows and changes, and needs the religion to grow along with him.

It is not actually Islam which is in need of reform...for to assume so, in particular from a muslim, would be paramount to blaspheme, for God has already directed for us His divine directives in the form of the Quran. But it is rather the muslims themselves who need the reform, in the format of education of their own religion, and direction as to how to implement the religion into their daily lives.

Sadly, the muslims have developed into what is evident today...an existence mainly of declared muslims...who know little if anything about their religion...and therefore are very sloppy in their adherance to the religion. It has been of the past decade or so that an awakening of sorts has come about in the muslim community, the spread of islamic knowledge among the muslims themselves, and a greater reaching out of the muslim community to the rest of the world in an attempt to educate ppl in Islam. This in itself is a bit of progress...although slow and late coming as it is.

Islam has long remained a silent and little known, rather mysterious religion and culture of the world...known truly in very small circles of peoples. There is an awakening of sorts, and it is developing to show us that it is for the betterment of mankind in general. For the non-muslims as well as the muslims. For surely...the thing that is mysterious and of the unknown...is something that ppl are most generally afraid of, and it is a cause of much of the tension in the world today of non-tolerance between the muslims and the non-muslims.

Lulua.

[Netcurtains]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-03-02 AT 11:25 PM (GMT)]Hi,
I see Binziad, Jcecil3 and Lulua have made some interesting points.
However I fancy being a bit more at the "extreme" end.

It is in the Qu’ran (so I have been led to believe) that Mohammed not only got
the information held in the Qu’ran from an Angel but also from an Islamic version
of the holy spirit.

The concept of the holy spirit is obviously very different (superficially)
between the different religions but even so lets concentrate on the positive; we all believe in a concept of the Holy Spirit.

There are two great churches in Christianity - St Peter’s in Rome and
St Sophia in Istanbul. Sophia is the name of Wisdom. St Sofia’s church is now a place
of education - a place of wisdom. I am sure she is happy with that.

Some Christian’s I am in contact with seem to be on an quest to find centres or
events connected to the holy spirit. I feel some of these people are even using computers
in a way not that far removed to seti (the hunt for alien life). A quest for the holy spirit! Some
of the searchers think it might be a person (the Jehovahs Witnesses for example think
"wisdom" might have arrived in a person in 1914) . A person, events, who, what, why
when - I have not really explained it too well but there is a quest here for ALL RELIGIOUS
CHILDREN the world over - not a hunt for Quarks or Aliens or A cure for Cancer but a
quest to find the holy Spirit.

Take a look at this web site. I put a small note on "the guest book" - I’m getting one or two
excited people writing to me. There is already IMHO an unofficial quest going on.

(please ignore the catholic bits as of course the quest will
take different forms in different religions)

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/6776/index.htm
This is the guest book:
http://mars.guestworld.com/wgb/wgbview.dbm?owner=DivineFem

Perhaps religious children around the world could unite in a quest for the holy spirit? What is it?
Why is it? Is it a girl? Is it man? Is it a force? Is it a message? Look for clues - go on a hunt.
Bring updates and news clips and put it on the internet.

Any mullahs or vicars or priests out there who want to start something ?

ps - you want me to say something nice about the Qu'ran - I can tell -;)
I can!
Christians have "hard coded" in their bible that they have replaced the Jewish old testament with the new testament. The Qu'ran has "hard coded" that the Chrisitianity is incorrect-ish. Thus the Qu'ran gives to Christians the feeling, the knowledge, the in-sight of what it must be like to be Jewish and read the gospels - to have "hard coded" in another religion that your religion is incorrect-ish. For this fact alone there is something from God in the Qu'ran for Christians and thus it must be worth reading (when I have time). The Qu'ran puts us in our place.

[Rasha]

if u want to read the quraan...check www.quraan.com The Noble Quraan section.

This is the translation of the meaning not the ACTUAL quraan as actual quraan is only in Arabic. please read and ask if u want anything clarified. Remember the site is www.quraan.com it has 2 A's.

peace
Rasha

[Netcurtains]

Hi,
thankyou for the link.

Of course I can see something in the "slave" or "servant"
aspect of humanity as well as the "king".

I have a weak belief in god and thus I always look to science to back me up. It is a bit like swimming in the shallow end - fear.

The big bang theory - in a nut shell. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Following on from this if God caused the first event all other events following on from the first are predestined - we are slaves and servants to the very first event. There is no free will. We are a product of our genes and our environment. I guess that backs up the Islamic view?

However at an atomic level everything is "uncertain". schrodinger's cat, heisenberg's uncertainty principle etc etc. The brain, thoughts do indeed work, to some extent, at this "uncertain" atomic level. Thus we are indeed kings (in control) and slaves (out of control) at the same time.

Good night.

The Holy Spirit - the hunt is on - I hope.

[Rasha]

:) since u like science.... this is a gift for you NutCurtains :) enjoy it


http://www.islam-guide.com/

http://www.islamicmedicine.org/amazing.htm

http://www.islampedia.com/ijaz/Html/Scientist_All/Index.htm

http://www.science4islam.com/

http://islamicity.com/education/science/

http://sultan.org/articles/QScience.html

http://islamweb.net/english/quran/miracalous/miracalous.htm

http://salam.muslimsonline.com/~islamawe/Quran/Science/scientists.html

These are few sites which talk about science and Islam... some of them (actually most of them) are written by WESTERN scientists or actually its muslim sites with the wester scientists declarations in them.

Enjoy!

and for the Big Bang thingy... here is another gift :)
http://www.ummah.net/harunyahya/evol/evol.html

p.s. I must admit i have not read al of them.... Most of them however I was given by friends... I added them to my list as they are things i was told are worth reading and thus if i find the time i must read them... so... if u wish to discuss anything in any of the sites.. please do paste the site and say specifically what it says... :) best of luck

p.s.s thanks for being honest. I hope u do read the quraan however. I am sure it will help u even if little!

[Sadiq]

Salam to all!

Now a intersting topic started, the only thing i have to add is that, 'reform' should be performed when that certain person, does not fufil the duties put down to him/her by God. The person 'should' reform or change to obey the lord and to bring happiness to ones life.

A person should change to 'be' more of a muslim, not islam change to 'attract' or to please the person/people. Now if a religion keeps on changing, it will not have any meaning..the issue, if i mis-understood it before or even now, is like, islam is perfect!!, the rules are perfect and nothing is needed to be added or taken away, all of the verses make sense and all of the hadith are correct...so the reform which should be aimed is the aspect of dawah....nothing added or taken away, but the use of the net is an 'reform' in itself to bring islam to others....

I am a bit busy and i will be away for some time, so carry on your discussion and the thing that most needs 'reform' is the choice to have better manners to ones family and to the rest of the world, this is not directed to anyone here, but to everyone incl me...

Take care.

Sadiq

[Rasha]

"There is no free will. We are a product of our genes and our environment. I guess that backs up the Islamic view?"

as a matter of fact this is not true... in islam we believe in free will... why then did God not distroy satan when he refused to prostrate to Adam?? FREE WILL! God can distroy him... but God gave him the choice to obey or disobey and be cursed... similarly we all have free will... but what u are referring to is Qadar.. its an issue that even muslims need to learn about. :) Maybe someone can explain it here.. what islam says about Qadar.. if no one does... what can i do i'll have to do it myself... just have two tests tomorrow and hope to study a bit... if no one answers in few days i'll do so inshaAllah.

peace

[jcecil3]

Greetings all!

WOW! So many interesting ideas. I like what you say, Lulua, and think it applies to all of us at times in our lives. Many times, it is not the religion that needs reformed so much as the person following the religion.

Yet, I am still thinking that our traditions can be reinterpreted in good ways that are consistent with the intent of Allah and our prophetic founders.

I do want to clarify something -- I do not think that the ideas I raise for the reform of Catholicism should be done because it will attract new members.

Rather, I think these changes should be made because I honestly believe these things were the intent of God. I think they are the right thing to do. That's why I provide a Scriptural reference on some of my ideas above.

As stated before, the issue of homosexuality is the most complex, so I won't address it in detail, and I would be ignorant on how to address it from an Islamic perspective. Yet, it is the only idea that seems to have been challenged above.

I do not believe in blessing *** unions because it might attract *** people to church. Rather, I am basically saying that I think it is a sin to hate homosexual persons if they were created that way by Allah.

Whether people are born *** or not, and whether I am interpreting Scripture correctly is open to debate between me and other Christians -- but please understand that I am not arguing the case based on the presumption that it would attract more people to Church, which would be a poor reason to introduce any reform to a religious body. The same principle applies to the other issues I raise.

By the way -- in case you're wondering, I am heterosexual and married, but I have *** friends who are serious Christians (even trying to live celibately) and I care about their issues.

Netcurtains -- I am not certian what you are talking about in the last couple posts, but I'll check out the web sites and see if that clarifies anything. Also, I went to the atheist site you posted in the humor section, but haven't received a password to make replies. I have something wriitten for the thread you posted.


Peace and Blessing!
jcecil3

[Netcurtains]

Hi,

Unlike some others on this board I actually do want to change religion to make it suit the people. Religious people who disagree with me (IMHO) are acting like "failed" politicians who just blame the press for their woes and have no respect for the peoples judgement. They are saying the peoples judgement is wrong or faulty. If the majority of people are turned off religion then IMHO it is religions fault - 100%.

I would be willing to change a great deal of religion to attract
more people.

My kids are very typical kids. They love computers and hate going to
church.

This idea is from a parent (me):

" A Quest for the holy Spirit" using the Internet, search engines, bulletin boards and other 21st century tools is something that might appeal to youngsters. A quest, an adventure and romance.

Can you find something of gods spirit by studying aspects of love or strange events that occur arround the world from time to time?

Look at the "seti" boards - young people from all over the world are all involved in hunting for aliens. Religion has to appeal to the young. A quest - a hunt - a spiritual journey. I really believe if many people put a great deal of effort into finding something called the "holy spirit" they will find some startling.

If you like signs - this news item occurred today 48 hours after I posted:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020321/4/cujdv.html

Homosexuality. I know nothing much about this topic. However any cleric who wants to change religion to suit homosexuality I feel ought to do some market research into finding out what *** men and women dislike (if anything) about religion. Market research - what do the people want?

SETI - HOLY SPIRT - Look at this site:

I came accross this almost by accident:
http://www.seti.org/education/sofia.html

Get the kids in!

This is the real seti site:
http://setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu/

Netty.

[Rasha]

Netty....

I don't know much about christian kids... what I see is most muslim kids love to go to mosque!! My lil sister who is only 6 now begs to be taken to mosque, begs to fast, begs to pray with us!!!

My brother who is only 11 is our "lil religious leader". He's the one who inspects that everything is ok around the house. He's the one who checks out if my clothes are well covering before I go out (of course in a nice way. He never goes around looking at me from top to bottom, but if he sees something he lets me know! His favourite statement: "RASHA!! You're not going out like that are you!!" - with a concern in his voice) My other brother who is only 14 wishes to be an imaam, although he is not as religiously involved as my other 11 year old brother!!

I think this will give u just a bit of idea about MUSLIM kids. I'm not trying to show off...but I guess its what they are taught. If they see their family around them being very involved, they grow up with God, and they learn to love god and see him in every thing around them. I admit my family has not brought us up in a very religious home, but the last 5 years has had a big effect on all of us. One after the other, we have seen the way around it. Of course, the younger ones just follow.

Muslim kids are used to the quraan, the adhan and so on since very young age, they can't do without it. My brothers (all three of them, and yes i didn't mention the eldest i know) all can't sleep without having quraan in the room. So does my dad. When my sister is bored and wants to listen to something fun, she listens to islamic anashid(songs if u wish).

and yes they ENJOY these! My 11 year old brother is currently listening to an islamic tape, a combination of anashid and informative lecture!

= )

so... don't worry, i think we know how to keep our kids busy with useful things!
;)

[Netcurtains]

I wouldn't be complacement.
Keep an eye on the big picture.

[Rasha]

when you have lots of beautiful content, the overall picture becomes more beautiful!

Muslims still need to fix some of the parts of the picture.. but we are getting there... each generation is improving than the one before... and soon Nitty... very very soon.... you will know what i mean!

[Netcurtains]

Hi,
I've replied to your post to the athiests.
You certainly seemed to have got them thinking.

I don't agree with all you say - that is the great think
about catholics - If you have 100 Catholics in a room then you'll
have at least 1000 different views about god. lol

:)

[Netcurtains]

Jcecil3,
an example snippet from an email - I think it might
explain my thinking a bit further:

"Your idea ref children searching for the Holy Spirit may be a good one. I have asked our rector at St John's Episcopal church if he could help me set up an Omega course (patterned after Rev Nicki Gumbel's Alpha Course) in which I could talk about the Divine Feminine/Holy Spirit to parishoners that were interested. I'm trying to get this across to adults, then maybe kids next. I'll let you know if my proposal to teach such a course ever sees the lite of day!!"


Netty

[jcecil3]

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 22-03-02 AT 10:40 PM (GMT)]Greetings Netty,

Hey -- those atheist are a fun group.

I think I might be getting your idea about the Holy Spirit quest. Originally, I think I misunderstood what you wrote to be a theological assertion. Now I think I was way off the mark...

Are you simply saying an interactive internet game would attract kids to religion, and then suggesting that the game might be to hunt for signs of the Holy Spirit in news clippings (like those you posted)?

If so, I like the idea, and I think kids would go for it.

Maybe Muslims could create a similar game...like hunt for Qur'anic verses on the secular web or something....

All this time, I thought you were Anglican...Are you Catholic (the 1 of 1000 voices out of 100 (lol))?

Then again, I think Anglicans and catholics are becoming so much the same, that I'm not sure why we still have different churches.

Peace and Blessings!
jcecil3

[Rasha]

:)

I think there are islamic games for kids.... I've seen few... but from what i noticed, most kids who are brought up on islam like to play with peers, read stories, or actually listen to stories, and so on. I host an internet mailing list where i send stories to the kids of all ages, the number is increasing....

i once stopped cause i was busy, got an email from a parents who said.. his daughter is seriously upset cause emails stopped! So I think there are many like this case... most muslim kids enjoy these things...and of course like other kids playing in parks, video games (which i absolutely hate) and so on.

later,
Rasha

[Netcurtains]

Hi,
I hate video games too! However I love the internet - it has so much information and puts you in touch with so many people from right around the globe. Too often Christian churches only concentrate on Jesus (the goalie - the saviour) where as the Holy Spirit scores!
In the UK catholic church we have something called confirmation for 15 year olds. This is make or break time for teenagers. The concept of the Holy Spirit is taught to 15 year olds. All I am saying is this concept needs to be bought into line with the 21st century.
Yes Jcecil3 I am a catholic, my wife and three kids are all catholics.
However in spirit I probably am CofE.

This site has a picture of my church (designed by my kids school).

http://www.stjo-guildford.co.uk/

Will some of you muslims show us pictures of your mosques etc as it would be interesting to put a place to a web poster don't you think?

[Rasha]

you want pictures of mosques, here you go:

http://www.webshots.com/g/32/573-sh/12219.html
http://www.webshots.com/g/32/577-sh/12802.html
http://www.webshots.com/g/32/577-sh/2169.html
http://community.webshots.com/photo/3982987/4329334XxcFlKdywy
http://community.webshots.com/photo/749479/2143109lqOtVUccMW
http://community.webshots.com/photo/5590933/5591146GbISKmaJiw
http://community.webshots.com/photo/1278974/8631842SyNBvfXKYA
http://community.webshots.com/photo/1278974/1399454mRWyxwagfj
http://community.webshots.com/photo/20829278/20923771XaaMsODzGs
http://community.webshots.com/photo/1534730/11891538kdADNxrdfc
http://community.webshots.com/photo/30223656/30224827mrOYwXwSVz

There are just few.... :) enjoy!

[Netcurtains]

Hi,
thanks for that. This is my local mosque. It is the OLDEST mosque in Britian. Al Fiyads son who died with Princess Diana is buried near by:

http://www.muslim.org/woking/is-rev-may20.htm