The Prophet Protected

[servant_of_Allah]

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

This is a continuation of the thread titled "The Prophet Protected !" originally started by Brother Jalaal.

I have some very important corrections and additions to make to my responses to JBJ on this topic, and Insha Allah, i will do this, over a period of time.

In one of his posts, JBJ said :

"I read the article you recommended, but I see little stock in it. They haven't answered why this story was reflected, even if not accepted, by Muslims, which is all that really matters. On their proposed disproof of the event using dates, they don't explain where all their dates came from. Even if the dates are correct, they offer no disproof. The timeline may be this: Satan interjected vanity (as Yusuf Ali calls it), the next day Gabriel informed him of what happened and gave Allah's verses, gave the reason Allah allowed it six years later (17.73-75), and Allah gave the history of it (22.52) three years after that. If this timeline is true, which seems perfectly logical with all the evidence, then there's no problem. The writer jumps to the conclusion (simple logical error!) that 22.52 abrogated Satan's verses when it doesn't have to be that way."

URL for this : http://www.aliasoft.com/iwc/index.cgi?az=read_count&om=104&forum=DCForumID4#48

The response to this is pretty simple, Alhamdulilah.

"JIBRIL USED TO REPEAT THE RECITATION OF THE QUR'AN WITH RASUL-ULLAH, SALL-ALLAHU `ALAYHI WA SALLAM, ONCE EVERY YEAR, BUT HE REPEATED IT TWICE WITH HIM IN THE YEAR HE DIED. Rasul-Ullah, sall-Allahu `alayhi wa sallam, used to stay in I`tikaf for ten days every year, but in the year of his death, he stayed in I`tikaf for twenty days." (al-Bukhari)

There is some more i can present on this issue. But i think quoting this one hadith from al-Bukhari should suffice.

JBJ, you wanted evidence, now you have it.

Jibril (peace be upon him) used to repeat the recitation of the Qur'an with Prophet Muhammed (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) once every year. But, he repeated it twice with him in the year that he died.

Now, as far as i am aware, both the People of the Book and the Muslims agree that making mistakes is not attributed to angels, and Allah knows best.

So, are you, JBJ, or anyone else, daring to claim that Jibril (peace be upon him) missed to realize the presence of the Satanic ayah during five yearly readings?

I seek refuge in Allah.
Astagfarullah.

I hope this satisfies your heart, Insha Allah.

Now, with regards to Imam al Tabari mentioning this incident in his "Al-Tarikh", i have gathered some info. on this and will present it later on, and i intend to make some corrections to some mistakes i made in this regard, and may Allah forgive me, Ameen.

I shall continue another time, Insha Allah.

Wassalamu Alaykum,
Servant of Allah.



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[JBJ]

Hi Servant of Allah!

It's nice to be back. But I think I won't be so involved in writing as I have been before. There's still a lot going on in my life.

Maybe it's because I've been away too long and have only a basic memory of what we discussed, but how does the hadith you quoted affect the arguement. Does it change the timeline? The hadith (I think) means that Jibril recited as much of the Qur'an as had been revealed every year. Right? Maybe I'm missing something.

However, the last time I argued on this subject you seemed to get pretty upset, and I don't want to continue unless you're sure I'm not offending you or making you uncomfortable. If so we can drop the subject.

One more note: the Bible does not distinguish between all the different types of extra-human beings like angels, demons, cheribim, seriphs and seraphim, nphilim, and whatever else. The Bible describes human beings and God a lot, but refers to everything else as just angels. So what the Qur'an calls jinn are considered angels. It doesn't mean anything about who they are, just the way each are translated into English. The point is, the Bible supports angels making mistakes.

Salaam!

JBJ

[servant_of_Allah]

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

Hello JBJ !

"It's nice to be back. But I think I won't be so involved in writing as I have been before. There's still a lot going on in my life."

I, too, will not be writing much. Perhaps i will stop writing (or typing to be more precise) altogether, due to various reasons.

"Maybe it's because I've been away too long and have only a basic memory of what we discussed, but how does the hadith you quoted affect the arguement. Does it change the timeline? The hadith (I think) means that Jibril recited as much of the Qur'an as had been revealed every year. Right? Maybe I'm missing something."

You can read the posts again, if you do not remember. They're still there.

The 'timeline' proposed by the Christians (i guess it was the Answering-Islam.org team, since that is where you got it from), is definitely affected by this.

The last time, i asked you to use your logic, but this argument didn't seem to satisfy you, so now, we have provided evidence in the form of hadith.

"However, the last time I argued on this subject you seemed to get pretty upset, and I don't want to continue unless you're sure I'm not offending you or making you uncomfortable. If so we can drop the subject."

If i remember correctly, and Allah knows best, i was upset because you were arriving at wild assumptions without any proper study of the subject. It is my view that it is better to study the subject before talking about it. And Allah knows best.

If you have throughly studied the subject this time, we can continue. Otherwise, there is no point. Nevertheless, i will post the messages i have to post regarding that topic, inorder to correct some mistakes i made.

"One more note: the Bible does not distinguish between all the different types of extra-human beings like angels, demons, cheribim, seriphs and seraphim, nphilim, and whatever else. The Bible describes human beings and God a lot, but refers to everything else as just angels. So what the Qur'an calls jinn are considered angels. It doesn't mean anything about who they are, just the way each are translated into English. The point is, the Bible supports angels making mistakes."

You do leave me confused. Take a look at his statement of yours:
"So what the Qur'an calls jinn are considered angels."

Now, remember the email you sent me. Take a look at the statement you made there:

"Understand that the Christian idea of a demon is a jinn who follows Satan."

?

"Salaam!"

Wa Alaykum.

Servant of Allah.





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[servant_of_Allah]

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

The Christians of Answering-Islam.org, when mentioning the topic of 'Satanic Verses' say:

"This event is documented by the four early biographical writers of Muhammad's life: Ibn Ishaq, Wakidi, Ibn Sa'd, and Tabari."

Today, i will try to shed more light on Ibn Sa'd, with Allah's help.

It ought to be mentioned right now that whatever information i shall be providing has been provided to me by Dr G F Haddad, whom i thank very much for helping me out.

Now, i will quote the answering-islam.org team verbatim here, Insha Allah. They say, when mentioning Ibn Sa'd and his mentioning of this incident in his book al-Tabaqat al-Kubra

"Muhammad Ibn Umar informed us; he said: Yunus Ibn Muhammad Ibn Fudalahal-Azfari related to me on the authority of his father (second chain) he (Ibn Sa'd) said: Kthir Ibn Zayd related to me on the authority of al-Muttalib Ibn Abd Allah Ibn Hantab; they said: ........"

However, answering-islam.org fails to reveal to its readers what was the opinion of the hadith scholars about Muhammed ibn Umar al Waqidi.

Ahmad ibn Hanbal said of him:
"He is a liar."

Al-Bukhari and Abu Hatim al-Razi said of him: "Discarded."

Ibn`Adi said of him: "His narrations are not retained, and their bane comes from
him."

Ibn al-Madini said of him: "He forges hadiths."

Al-Dhahabi said: "Consensus
has settled over his debility."

Mizan al-I`tidal (3:662-666 #7993).]

Why doesn't the answering-islam.org team mention this even once? Of'course, we cannot blame JBJ for not having mentioned this, because he, like almost every Christian, copy pasted from the answering-islam.org website.
However, let everyone know what the hadith scholars said of Muhammed ibn Umar al Waqidi.

And Allah knows best.

I think we have settled the matter of Ibn Sa'd, or does JBJ want me to go into more detail?

Wassalamu Alaykum to Muslims,
Bye to others,
servant of Allah.



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[JBJ]

Salaam Servant of Allah!

I'm sorry, I guess the comparisons between the Muslim and Christian views of superhuman beings can be confusing. Too many languages. Inshallah, I'll clarify.

I should first say that the Bible does not spell out every type of superhuman being and their qualities. In theory, there may be more beings than are specified. For the sake of simplification I'll write as if there aren't.

In Islam, what is translated as angels are beings of light who endlessly perform Allah's will. There is no Christian equivalent of them.

In Christianity, what is translated as angels are any kind of superhuman beings. They may be good, like Gabriel, or evil, like Satan. The bad angels are more commonly called fallen angels or demons. Since they can be on either side, they are similar to the jinn of Islam.

In retrospect, I said, "So what the Qur'an calls jinn are considered angels" because Christian angels can be good or bad, as jinn can be. I said, "Understand that the Christian idea of a demon is a jinn who follows Satan" because, well, that what it is. I hope this cleared things.

To be blunt, I have no idea who Waqidi, so I'll trust your source that he can't be trusted.

By the way, I can and do think for myself. I didn't use A-I except as a short cut to find references. I didn't use their time line, I don't know if they even have a timeline. For anything besides their sources, I don't use them.

You said you were upset because I was arriving at wild assumptions with proper study. That's how Christians feel when nonChristians "disprove" the trinity without proper study. But neither is right.

I still don't want to go further into the subject if you feel the subject is insulting, as that violates the rules. However, if you want to discuss it off this forum we can do that.

Salaam,

JBJ