What do muslims think about this.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

I believe we are the Messiah, the Prophets, the Buddha, the Manifestations of God and People of Spirit who can and do make a difference in our personal and world economy. Not one of Us but all of us makinga difference in our Personal and World Spiritual Economy and Environment.
What do you think?
write me at AM Habibi
99 Evans Ave, Apt 6
Halifax Nova Scotia
B3M 1C8

or call me at 1-902-443-4347

or email me at amlhabibi@hotmail.com

[Ibrahim]

as-salaamu aleikum brother Asif,

Yes I think you are spot on with that. Alhamdulilah we understand the difference between the Creator and the created.

To Anne Marie,

From where do you get the authority to make these claims? Are they just your whims and desires? Do you actually have evidences for such concepts or do they simply emanate from the limited mind of a human being?

Ibrahim.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

After a long Spiritual journey I have come to see everyone must strive to be like the prophets of God Allah. By saying this I am not saying we are perfect just Spiritual beings seeking to be whole, Holy even though our Holieness may be small but none the less to God Allah it means a lot. Even to each of us it means a lot when someone is good, nice or is kind to us or others.

We are imperfect this is true but should we not work to be better?

Should we not work to be like the prophets and be good and Godly.

[Ibrahim]

Anne Marie,

"Should we not work to be like the prophets and be good and Godly."
---
Part of this is correct, yes indeed we should strive to emulate the prophets in all aspects of our lives, this is why as Muslims, we follow the sunnah of our prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). But we do not claim to be "Buddhas" nor do we blaspheme by claiming we are the "Manifestations of God".

The part which I believe is incorrect is where you have bundled "good" and "godly" together. We are not on a similar level to God, just seeking to emulate Him, as is true with the prophets (as we and prophets are all humans). God is not a human, and we cannot emulate Him, this is perhaps some of the wisdom behind Him sending human beings to us (prophets) who we can emulate.

Although we can show mercy, and He shows mercy, and we can be forgiving as He is forgiving and so on, it is different, and if this is what you've confused with "Manifestation of God" then I hope you'll come to see the difference.

Glory be to Him, and far above any associations is He that people make of Him.

Ibrahim.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

I guess what I am trying to say is I believe in a living Messiah one that dwells within each of us. Did Jesus not say be as I am?

[Ibrahim]

Anne Marie,

"I guess what I am trying to say is I believe in a living Messiah one that dwells within each of us."
---
I've never been quite sure what Christians meant by this "indwelling". Do you just mean that you accept into your heart his teachings or do you actually think he's physically inside you? It's really confusing.

"Did Jesus not say be as I am?"
---
According to your book it might record this, I don't know. We, as Muslims, follow the example of our prophet (peace be upon him) so we be as he is (or try our best to). I do not doubt in the slightest that your messenger would've called you to emulate him, but shouldn't you then worship the Lord of creation, as he did? Instead of worshipping him (a mere creation himself)? Shouldn't you imitate him, instead of Paul?

Ibrahim.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

Very good points, yes it is in imatating the master we become more like him, but we can not be him for he was only one person.

Be as I am yes even muslems follow the exsample of Muhmad and see the results are great are they not.

The reason I am saying a living Messiah is so more people will emult Jesus, Muhmad, Buddha etc to be the best they can be hopefully incouraging the good in everyone to come out.

[Ibrahim]

Anne-Marie,

"yes it is in imatating the master we become more like him, but we can not be him for he was only one person."
---

Right, one person cannot be two people, nor three people. But the aim of imitating someone is not to become that person, it's to accquire a similar level of God-consciousness as that person. And it's certainly much better to imitate a good example than a bad example, for if we are cultured by and we imitate bad people, then we will most likely end up like them, similarly if we are cultured by and we imitate good people, then we will insha'allah (god willing) end up like them.

"The reason I am saying a living Messiah is so more people will emult Jesus, Muhmad, Buddha etc to be the best they can be hopefully incouraging the good in everyone to come out."
---

Well we can emulate somoene who is dead, so long as we have recorded examples of them. Do you think Christians actually emulte the Messiah?

Ibrahim.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

Yes I do. Even Mohmad Peace Be Upon Him. Even the Buddha. These are people who have set excellent examples of good behavior and generoursity to humanity.

Isn't that part of Islam to be like the Prophet?


It isn't just about the Holy books and the laws it is about being human too.

I have seen with my own eyes examples of the brothers and sisters of Islam being like the Prophet in their charity works and being kind etc.

Christians are the same. Though I might add I am not a Christian but I believe in Christianity and Islam.

[Ibrahim]

Anne Marie,

Even the Buddha. These are people who have set excellent examples of good behavior and generoursity to humanity.

Do you believe that what the Buddhists hold today as their belief is what Guatama himself taught them? Do you believe what the Christians today hold as their belief is what al-Maseeh (the Christ) taught them? We know that what the Muslims hold today as their belief is exactly what Muhammad (peace be upon him) taught us. We have complete narration chains for all of our Islamic texts, which show us unbroken transmission of his words, and the words of his Creator.

Isn't that part of Islam to be like the Prophet?

To observe the Sunnah (ways) of the prophet (pbuh) is most definitely part of Islam.

It isn't just about the Holy books and the laws it is about being human too.

Legalism versus Spiritualism? The book is a guide, without it we do not even know how to be human. When left to our own desires, we will go astray, and for this we need a disclipined teaching.

I have seen with my own eyes examples of the brothers and sisters of Islam being like the Prophet in their charity works and being kind etc.

You can see this in any faith. What it all comes down to is our adherence to monotheism, without this, we are indeed astray and are wronging our own souls. When we join a partner with our Creator, we have gone far astray. When we place our Creator above all things, then we naturally exhude charity, kindness, mercy etc.

Christians are the same. Though I might add I am not a Christian but I believe in Christianity and Islam.

If you believe in Islam, then you are confirming that Christianity has strayed and that you are returning to the clear path as laid down by your creator.

Ibrahim.

[Yahya gagnon]

One can't be half muslim .
All the prophet and Prophet messenger were Muslim,Jesus ,Mosa,Nouah And Muhammed may peace be with him.
They all teach the same beleif.God exsist without a place.
He is different from all the creation.
And he don't need anything.
The Coran and the Haadith informed us about everithing that is unclear in the book of the previous prophet ,who is nowadays,corrupt by the misguidance of the devil and the hypocrisy of the non believer ,even if they know.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

Unfortunately there are many half christians and muslims and jews out there. This is due to problems they have encountered with the people of their religions.

Because if people truely believed and followed their faith then there wouldn't be anything bad happening in the world.

So if these half believers followed half the religion then this is something.

Better than nothing.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

My website to check out

http://home.talkcity.com/SpiritCir/anna888/index.html

[Hakima Ahmed]

Anne marie what do you mean half Muslim? there is no such thing as half Muslim. If you are Muslim then you are completely a Muslim.

Also you said.."if they followed their faith"........ what do you mean? Are you referring to the faith of the very first Prophets, Adam, Noah, [as]? If you mean this then look at Islam. Islam does not take its name from any Prophet beacuse it means "Submission to the will of Allah", and that is what all the Prophets taught regardless of which nation they were born into.

How can Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God, when he never actually said that himself. It was Paul who wrote that.
How come Christians eat pork when Jesus forbade it? It was because yet again they are not listening to their "Master".

Maybe if people like that woke up out of their ignorant hole they would realise the truth of God, that there is only one God, Allah....who has no partners.

I do not understand those who try to say they are child of God. Just because the human mind can only comprehend the mightiness of human power and nothing greater, they try to liken themselves to God in order to find a reasonable explanation for God.

It is those who believe without seeing who know, remember the old saying, "I am wise beacause I know nothing"

At the end of the day, human beings think they are all superior because they are arrogant, so they go around drawing pictures of "God" because not only do they think they look like him, but that they know EVERYTHING about him.

Those who seek the truth will be guided by Allah [swt] inshallah.

[Anne Marie Habibi]

Some good points Brother

WWwwhen I say follow their Faith it means something greater than religion. It is a Faith that transends all religions great and small. It is the Faith that our lives will be lived well, that we will be treated well and with respect. It is the Faith that Our children will grow up and follow our steps if they be good.

There is much in Faith that has little to do with religion.

Then there is much of Faith that can be related to religion
It all depends on which angel you take it from.

I prayer which ever way Faith means for people that they share it with a generous heart and a kindly smile.

Religions have been key guide posts for many people and yet many turn away everyday and many turn to them everyday, in a endless sea of coming and going.

Pray Brother that Faith is restored in the hearts and minds of the many whether they have a religion or not. For God, Aallah loves those also who have Faith but no religion.

My email amlhabibi@hotmail.com

[Hakima Ahmed]

>Salaam all.
Anne Marie, what you said makes sense and is understandable. I agree that faith is the most important aspect, and that without it we have nothing. You said, quote:

"It is a
>Faith that transends all religions
>great and small. It is
>the Faith that our lives
>will be lived well, that
>we will be treated well
>and with respect. It
>is the Faith that Our
>children will grow up and
>follow our steps if they
>be good."

Islam teaches us that faith in Allah [swt], His Messengers [pbut] and Books, Angels, Judgement Day, Hereafter... is enough to allow one into Al jannah, Heaven. Therefore your following statement is a reasonable one:
>
>"There is much in Faith that
>has little to do with
>religion."

>However without spiritual guidance and physical discipline we fall into an aimless track and tend to ignore our soul and instead value material things. The guidance of Allah [swt] in the form of holy scripture and Messengers is there to guide human beings because we are weak and fallible. Allah [swt] knows this, He knows human nature and has given us limitations and obligations.

Allah [swt] has given us guidance because we need it, and it is for our own good. By obeying Allah [swt] we live our life for Him beacause we know Allah [swt] will reward us in Arkhira, Hereafter.

Aitheists will say they need no spiritual guidance beacause they don't believe in Allah [swt], but we as People of The Book know that we have been given spiritual guidance and commands that we must follow. Naturally as humans we will question some of these obligations, but in the end faith overules human reasoning, and if a person has enough faith they will believe and obey their Lord regardless of their own wants.

">Pray Brother that Faith is restored
>in the hearts and minds
>of the many whether they
>have a religion or not."

Yes I will pray to Allah [swt] that faith is restored, however human beings must aim to seek knowledge and not just sit back. Religion is important though because without the constant reminder of Allah [swt], through religious practice eg. prayer, we are more vunerable to Satan who is our enemy and will attack us from every angle.

If people ignore religion, then all sense of unity, brotherhood and moral standards will decrease. There will be no peace and harmony in the world because human beings will all be opposing in ideas and views. Without religion, faith is easier to forget or ignore.

Islam teaches us the best way to live our lives. Do you know why? Because Allah [swt] KNOWS the best way to live our lives.
Therefore inshallah I pray that people will turn to Islam, the religion of truth, the deen [way of life] that Allah has chosen for us.

[jcecil3]

>I believe we are the Messiah,
>the Prophets, the Buddha, the
>Manifestations of God and People
>of Spirit who can and
>do make a difference in
>our personal and world economy.
>Not one of Us but
>all of us makinga difference
>in our Personal and World
>Spiritual Economy and Environment.
>What do you think?
>write me at AM Habibi
>99 Evans Ave, Apt 6
>Halifax Nova Scotia
>B3M 1C8
>
>or call me at 1-902-443-4347
>
>or email me at amlhabibi@hotmail.com


I can't answer for Muslims, but Christians believe that we are all children of God guided by the Holy Spirit. Baptism is a symbolic action that unites us to Christ and actualizes his grace within us. As members of his mystical body, we are temples of the Holy Spirit, called to be "alter christus" (literally, another Christ -- which is to say, another messiah). Paul called the Church a holy nation of priests, prophets, and kings. In other words, I agree with your view from within my world-view to some extent. However, I also believe that it is possible to reject our "Christ-nature".

[xioncrow]

In my experience & the faculties that have been given to us all as a gift from God - our mind, I have been able to catch glimpses of the process of truth. None of us can ever know Truth in it's entirety simply for the fact that we are physical creatures trapped in the limitations of material form. But there are comon threads in all Mystical traditions of all mainstream faiths. Namely that there is a larger consciousness that is centered in Love. That all of us have this within us but many are unaware. That the one overall thing that keeps us seperated from this experience is our small self or our Ego structure. Buddha speaks directly to this problem in it's practices of silencing the small self. By basically doing two things controlling the mind & body & contemplating compassion for others
outside of self, there by helping shut down the impediments of the Ego.
Jesus spoke specifically to the Jewish culture in his time. Stating clearly that the most important thing one can do is to Love our brothers & our sisters as one community, whether they are Jews or gentiles. (Another example of getting out of our small self mentality.)Though the inculturization of christianity has created a worshiping of the man Jesus as a God like figure, there is one overiding fact that makes one observe what Jesus was really trying to get across. By not writing his teachings he was empowering us to distil his message to two basic concepts. One that the law of God is important but it must be used in the context of Love & a shared brotherhood for all men.
Two that the Christ resides within all of us. Of course it's not some robed figure sitting in our gut. It's a metaphor for a consciousness that connects to a shared love for all Gods creation once we can move the little self out of the way.
Arguably one of the oldest written stories of God, The bagivad Gitta Speaks almost identically to these fundemental concepts. One, that we are more than our percieved selves & two that most of us are unaware of this. The Atma or true self is basically the Soul or permenent Self. Our personalities of physical life are everchanging material manifestations or personality fragments of the Atma self working out specific cause & effect processes of our life choices. The bagivad Gitta speaks specifically to the importance of resting our thoughts & action on God himself.
Finally I would suggest that Islam is the process of placing the law of God outside ourselves. That as has been stated by Asif
"....God is the Creator, unlike us, God is the Master, unlike us.
We are only His slaves and are to worship Him at all times".
Which is important to the nature of Ego. But again there have been many prophets who have shown the common thread of the way. That is discipline of the small self so that we can find conection to the higher self or the voice of God. All faiths in there mystic traditions point to these same truths. Discipline of self & practice towards the One overiding consciousness, Love.
To think we need one book or one way in some form of competitive battle of the books is to fall into the very trap that we are Truthfully trying to avoid. That we have a rule book that no one else has, that we are fundementaslly correct & someone else is wrong. What it reminds me of is the battle for illusion. Again our messy Ego always get's in the way of Truth. If Allah is understood to be beyond our capacity to completely understand, is it not appropriate to hold all of creation as part of a plan that we but only have a fragmentary understanding of? And if that's the case should we not as Jesus says, who is one of the prophets of Islam, Do not 'Judge less you be judged yourself'. Or do not presume to know the correct path & shut all other manifestations of Mystery.
I have found in my personal experience that when I let go of thinking I know the correct way & give that control up to faith I get closer to the unfolding mystery of Truth.
I dont need a rule book from religion to see this. I don't need to be an Athiest to observe this, I don't need to have a label to experience it & amazinly enough I can find a sense of clear morality without having to quote a book, simply by trusting my connection to my deeper self & the knowledge that this Atma rests within the center of God.

Praise be & may the Greater Jihad find Peace within.
With all respect & deep abiding wonder in the process of creation I extent this fragments thoughts on the nature of mystical Truth.

Xion

[jcecil3]

LAST EDITED ON 23-10-01 AT 08:52 PM (GMT)[p]Xion:

I sort of agree with you. I think the only points of departure I would have are as follows:

1) I believe that this mystical force of love is personal -- it is not blind like electricity, but has a will and a mind beyond my small self comprehension.

2) I believe that Jesus is the perfect embodiment of this force from the moment of his conception and from eternity. He is not just another prophet or avatar, but love itself incarnate -- the divine as human and the human as divine.

3) When I doubt whether I am acting out of my lower or higher self, I can look outside myself to Jesus, the Bible, or tradition for guidence. There are other traditions that are good and holy as well. However, when another tradition contradicts Christianity on an issue where I need guidence, I am faced with a decision. I have learned from experience that Christ is trustworthy and leads me to most "natural" choice in the long run.

Peace and Blessings!

jcecil3