can somebody tell me how to reply to this plz..:(

[muslim75]

Hi,
I've been involved in a heated debate with many guys over what is happening..defining terrorism..plaestinian casue...Islam...etc
today I got this from one of them:
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"The Qur'an also states,
Sura 5:85, "Strongest among men in enmity to the Believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans." Then in Sura 9:5 it adds " fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them. and lie in wait for them in every strategem of war.
Then Surat Al-Maidah 5:51 tells Muslims: "O ye who believe, take not the jews or christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you who turns to them is of them."

I am not making a personal statement here but thought it would be interesting for people to see!! I know Bible also has seemingly contradicting words!!
I think it is safe to say , that words are just words and that is it!! If you cannot follow thru with words by appropriate action then the words and writing of those words meant nothing to begin with!!"
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that was the exact post...and honestly I'm not sure how to reply back to this one...can anyone help me plz....I'm asking for help because I don't want to screw everything now..!!..
plz help..
thanks

[Nzingha]

Below is qouted by many who cut and paste off anti muslim/islam webpages. They never have Qur'an never read it and don't know our history. So they take usually out of context ayat and want to give an image of muslims being war mongers. however if you research you'll find how to answer the cut and paste jobs on your own. Watch how things change..


>Sura 5:85, "Strongest among men in
>enmity to the Believers wilt
>thou find the Jews and
>Pagans."

according to my number it is 5:82 so I'll change it

5:82 continues with "and you will find nearest to love to the believers those who say 'We are chrstians' That is because amongst them are priests and monks and they are not proud.

Allah continues And when they listend to what has been sent down to the messenger you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. they say "our Lord! We believe, so write us down among the witnesses"


If one follows along this thread this "eminity" that lies between the believers and the jews and pagans is the rejection of islam. Their rejection of the word of Allah, their hearts being hardened and ears deaf to the words of Allah. However the christians being more open to the truth.

Now if one understands the Pagan and Jewish belief you'll see how true this is. Pagans worship multiple or created gods.. they have no sense of the "oneness" of Allah and have no understanding of their being The Creator.. beyond our creation.. they worship what they create with their hands. it is hard for most of them to comprehend the concept of Allah as we are taught in Qur'an.. The Jews have been known for rejecting messengers that came to them from Allah.. they have messed up throughout their history, being haughty and prideful. The Qur'an attests to this, so they too are hardened against the true words of God.

This is not about some war or "emnity" in the matters of war enemies but rather emnity and discord in regards to faith and submiting to Allah.







Then in Sura 9:5
>it adds " fight and
>slay the Pagans wherever you
>find them. and lie in
>wait for them in every
>strategem of war.


In order to understand fully this partial qoute one has to look it up.

this matter is dealing with a war that existed between the pagans and the Muslims. there were pagans who broke treaties who the muslims were fighting. There was a cease in order to honor the four holy months in which no one fought. However after this time Allah called on Muslims to be smart and fight them as they fought the Muslims.

However note first that the call of war is off in regards to those who there is a treaty

9:4 Except those pagans with whom you have a treaty, and who have not subsequently failed you in it. nor have supported anyone against you. so fulfil their treaty to them to the end of their term surely allah loves the pious.

So first the Muslims are not to break the treaty with the pagans and honor it as long as they do. However for those who have broken the treaty we are to fight in war.. not turn the other cheek. be smart.. Kill them where you find them, capture and besiege them and prepare an ambush. This is smart strategies of war.

however one should also CONTINUE The verse 9:5 BUT if they repent and offer prayers and give zakat then leave their way free Verily Allah is oft forgiving most merciful.

so if they become muslim, leave them alone. But Allah also continues.

9:6 AND if anyone of the pagans seeks your protection then GRANT THEM PROTECTION so that he may hear the word of Allah and then escort him to where he can be SECURE that is because they are men who know not.


So there are conditions to this half qouted verse.. 1. don't fight against those who have not broken the treaty. 2. fight smartly those who have broken the treaty 3. if they become muslim do not harm them 4. if they seek your protection you must give it to them and make them safe.


>Then Surat Al-Maidah 5:51 tells Muslims:
>"O ye who believe, take
>not the jews or christians
>for your friends and protectors.
>They are but friends and
>protectors to each other. And
>he among you who turns
>to them is of them."
>
>


5:51 and other verses state that the Muslims are not to take the ahul kitab as auliya.. which indicates protectors or managers of our affairs. We are not to seek them to protect us or manage our affairs for us because they will seek out their best interest and not ours. there is so much history to prove this right i do wish non muslims would leave these verses alone. We are not to seek protection from such people because they do not believe as we do, will do what is in the best interest of their communities even if it means sacraficing ours, they will not judge according to Allah, nor would they do justice to us. So we are to be the protectors and guardians of other muslims. We can not trust them to oversee our affairs with honesty and justness. This is not about "friendship" which is a bad translation. Muslim men can marry women of the book.. in which Allah granst LOVE and mercy and kindness between the couples. To undrestand these verse as friendship is rediculous.. Husbands and wives are friends among other things. Also the friendship that Muhammad pbuh had with Non muslims is clearly evident that this is not the understanding of the verse. Rather it is about who is to manager our affairs, who will look out for our best interest and who is best to protect the muslim community. History and current events prove that we should follow these verses.

I do hope that helps

Nzingha


- Never do I argue with a man with a desire to hear him say what is wrong, or to expose him and win victory over him. Whenever I face an opponent in debate I silently pray - O Lord, help him so that truth may flow from his heart and on his tongue, and so that if truth is on my side, he may follow me; and if truth be on his side, I may follow him.
al-Imam Al-Shafi'i

[muslim75]

that was really inspiring...I was preparing a similar reply but it was much shorter...I quoted most of your words..
thanks a lot and barak allah bekum...
Tawfiq

[jcecil3]

>The Jews
>have been known for rejecting
>messengers that came to them
>from Allah.. they have messed
>up throughout their history, being
>haughty and prideful. The Qur'an
>attests to this, so they
>too are hardened against the
>true words of God.
>
>This is not about some war
>or "emnity" in the matters
>of war enemies but rather
>emnity and discord in regards
>to faith and submiting to
>Allah.
>


In Islam, is a belief that the Jews are inherently flawed in some way? I mean, is it a valid interpretation of the Qur'an to state that those statements directed at Jews were meant only for Jews in Mohammed's time and experience?

This is how contemporary Catholic Christians interpret New Testament passages referring to the Jews -- the passages only refer to those first century Jews who knew Christ, rejected him, and participated in his cruciufixtion or persecution of early Jewish converts to Christianity. The passages are not interpreted as meaning that Jews today are in any way responsible for the death of Christ.

It seesm to me as a Christian that the Qur'an could be promoting racism if the statements about Jews are taken to mean all Jews for all times.

What do Muslims think?