Message to the Taliban a Fatwa

[Anne Marie Habibi]

Peace be upon you brothers and sisters of Islam.

Dear Taliban

No where in the Holy Quran does it say the woman can have no rights. The Holy Quran gives equal rights to men and woman, that means woman can be educated and have jobs, poperty and they are to be treated as equals.

As to wearing a Burqa it is inhuman to ask such a thing when a veil such as a hijab is sufficent cover. I suggest it is not on the shoulders of woman only to be of good character, men must be of high character and not impose themselves on woman. In a hadeth from the Holy Prophet it says the even if the most beautiful woman was to walk before a man naked in the streets that the man would be of such high character that he would not harm a hair on her head.

Dear Taliban what I see you doing has nothing to do with Islam and you should realize you are placing a black mark on the heart of Allah by doing so.

I suggest that the brothers and sisters in Islam should rise up and oppose your crude behavior calling it Islam when indeed you are shaming the very heart of Allah by your actions.

I further suggest and recommend through inspiration from Allah to change your ways or be no longer allowed to call yourselves muslims.

By the grace of Allah my you read and take to heart and change your ruinous ways for the very heart of Islam is at stake.

Stop the silent weeping of Allah by giving back woman their Allah given rights and no longer keep them in the dark ages.

Allah is watching you and expecting you to heed this call.

Your sister in Islam

Anne Marie Habibi amlhabibi@hotmail.com

[Nzingha]

I'm curious to know how is it that you know what the taliban does? have you been to afghanistan? sat with the women there? aid them in the development of their country? or got your news from which source exactly?

with all the things going on over there and has been going on for years your focus is on how women dress? I find this odd

odder indeed is the pictures of the afghan refugess.. ever notice that the families trying to flee.. the women inparticular vary in their way of dress. That not all women wear the full covering?

have no fear if this is your only concern, how women dress the fleeing refugees should put your mind to ease.. not all are covered head to toe, their garments do vary.




- Never do I argue with a man with a desire to hear him say what is wrong, or to expose him and win victory over him. Whenever I face an opponent in debate I silently pray - O Lord, help him so that truth may flow from his heart and on his tongue, and so that if truth is on my side, he may follow me; and if truth be on his side, I may follow him.
al-Imam Al-Shafi'i

[jcecil3]

LAST EDITED ON 12-10-01 AT 10:26 PM (GMT)[p]LAST EDITED ON 12-10-01 AT 07:38*PM (GMT)

Anne Marie,

I have been reading your postings with amusement.

I am NOT a Muslim, though we are all sisters and brothers created by one God, and I believe that the Spirit of God dwells in us all, including the Muslims. Like you, I believe that we are all called to be "other Christ's". I come to this site to understand Islam better and hopefully promote better understanding.

At the same time, I have disagreements with Muslims. For example, I cannot currently accept the Koran as God's definitive word because statements in the Koran are irreconcilable with my belief about who Jesus of Nazareth is. I also understand that there are differences in moral codes and culture between my world-view and Islam.

My approach is to honestly face these differences, ask questions, and clarify my own views while I learn the views of others. I believe that this intellectual honesty promotes mutual understanding, and guides all parties closer to the truth.

We can't gloss over our differences with mushy thinking and poetic language hoping that will resolve everything.

As I read what you write, I am constantly laughing. I have to thank you for the chuckles!

However, though I have much to learn about Islam, it seems clear, even to this Christian, that your views are not Islamic -- at least not in any commonly understood meaning of the word. Yet you claim to be Muslim. Other Muslims feel free to correct me if I am mistaken in this impression.

I do not mean this uncharitably or disrepectfully, but be courageous, self-respecting, and clear minded enough to declare yourself what you are, even if that is a garden variety pagan. To do less appears to me to be actually disrespectful of Islam (or any other religion).

I do believe that people have the right to define themselves individually. However, groups of people also have a right to define themselves. If you insist on defining yourself as Muslim, it would seem appropriate that you use language that other Muslims accept. For example, at the very least, back up your statements about women and women's dress with some Koranic verses.

Just a suggestion....

Peace and Blessings!

jcecil3

[Anne Marie Habibi]

Hi
The reason I have not given qoutes is because though I read the Qquran I do not have a photographic memory to memorize every verse or Ayah I have read.

I am a believer in Islam though I do not practice it as my religion. I believe in more than one religion also and I am a student of Islam.

My beliefs are my own laugh if you will, there is nothing to laugh at about women in Aafghanistan losing their equal rights with men, the law is clear Women have equal rights with men to have jobs, be educated, the first right to devorce, the rights of women and orphans are there too.

I believe most Islamic people are familiar with the verses I refer to.

As for My Messiah project that is of Allahs Inspiration to me and again is something to think about not laugh at.

Aas a believer in Islam I believe I must speak up when People are doing things that are unIslamic. THus I should my love and respect for this great religion.

When I get the quotes to back up my claim that equal rights are given to women I will post them. Or for how they should dress.

Obviously you are a student of Islam yourself as it seems you know about Islam.

[jcecil3]

Student of Islam? Yes.

Believer in one God? Yes.

Believe Muslims might be saved at the end times? Certainly.

Believer that Mohammed was guided in some way by the Holy Spirt? Yes.

Believer that the Koran is the infallible word of God? NO!!!!

Believer that Chirst is the infallible Word of God? YES!!!!!

Keep up the faith sister.......

[Lulua]

Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.

Good day to all others.

So, Anne Marie...now you are not only suggesting that perhaps you are the 'chosen' one to be the female leader of the world...but as well...you are qualifying yourself to give fatwas to muslims? You sure are misinformed about Islam and Muslims on the whole...for muslims do not look to anyone for fatwas...not even every single muslim is entitled nor qualified to give out fatwas (religious verdicts or rulings)...but only those of the highest standards of scholarly-ship...and those whom the muslims themselves look up to as eligible for that esteemed yet highly responsible position. And, by the way, not all muslims will even accept to take on that responsibility...for it is a deep and great responsibility indeed. And here you are, Anne Marie...a self-claimed non-muslim...trying to hand out fatwas to muslims?

Even our non-muslim visitors to this site have figured you out.

Please refrain from such ventures, Anne Marie, and as well refrain from trying to tell muslims how to worship in their religion...for it IS their religion, and not yours. No matter how much 'book' knowledge you may gain of Islam or any other religion...you can never imagine what it is to be a follower of that religion, nor are you qualified to advice the followers of any particular religion on how to worship in their religion, unless and until you yourself become a follower of that said religion. Regardless of what that religion may be.

Studying religions...and knowing about religions...is quite different from living them, experiencing them, and eminating them.

We all know...Muslims and non-Muslims alike that Satan is the enemy of mankind...the opposite of good and the representative and initiator of evil. However, regardless of that evil, there is even evidence that Satan himself does believe in God. Belief itself does not help anyone...as we see with the example of Satan. For although Satan admits his belief in God...yet he is arrogant in his refusal to obey God's commandments, and tends to fulfill his own pleasures, therefore creating upon himself great sin and eventual punishment. The following verse from the Quran is evidence enough of this true belief:

'Remember Satan made their (sinful) acts seem alluring to them, and said: "No one among men can overcome you this day, while I am near to you": but when the two forces came in sight of each other, he turned on his heels, and said: "Lo! I am clear of you; Lo! I see what ye see not; Lo! I fear Allah; for Allah is strict in punishment."'s. 8, v. 48.

So, Anne Marie...it matters not that you believe in Islam...or Christianity or any other religion. What matters more is your action upon that belief. For belief without action is only similar to what Satan does...he believes yet without action...in fact...he does non-action...he is arrogant in that he refuses to act upon his belief and obey God's commandments. So...what is the value that you 'believe' in Islam...in the Quran...? If you do not follow through with that belief?

I ask you to refrain from trying to dissway people here at these forums...by stating things like your belief in Islam...and trying to direct people by giving fatwas and other things, trying to pose as a muslim. For you yourself have admitted time and time again that you are not muslim. If you are, then say so. And if you are not, then take it somewhere else.

Thankyou.

Lulua.
'

[jcecil3]

Asif -- Your point is well taken. It was one of my first posts, and I apologize to the author. As I've read more, I understand that some people are using English as a second language. Regardless, my original post was sarcastic in tone, and I owe everyone an apology. Sorry.

[jcecil3]

LAST EDITED ON 14-10-01 AT 10:14 PM (GMT)[p]>" Believer that the Koran is
>the infallible word of God?
>NO!!!! "
>
>We have had discussions in the
>past on this topic in
>this forum itself. We pointed
>out mistakes in the Bible,
>and in response, a Christian
>made a post on the
>"mistakes" in the Qur'an, which
>was thoroughly refuted. Whereas the
>post on the mistakes in
>the Bible, was ignored and
>not refuted.
>
I am not sure which post you refer to regarding the Bible that was completely ignored by Christians. I responded to one of Lulua's posting, and a Christian by the handle of Firefly wrote a lengthy and detailed response to the "101 Contradictions in the Bible" posting by Om Mohammed. Firefly's response was acknowledged as "intelligent" by Muslims visiting the site. I also commented on Firefly's response that I agree with the answers provided. I'm relative newcomer, so if you were refering to another post, I apologize that I have not seen it yet.

Regarding the post of contradictions in the Qur'an, I never saw that one. It was removed before my first visit. Nor do I really think it is helpful to understanding Islam if I rake the Qur'an looking for contradictions. Ultimately, my reasons for not accepting the Qur'an as infallible has nothing to do with contradictions in the Qur'an. I reject it as infallible because of what it says about Jesus.

However, since you do seem to want to address the issue of contradictions, this is what I recently wrote in response to the same question from Dr. Quasir:

"As I read through the statements written by Om Mohammed and Lulua on this site, I am somewhat frustrated by the bombardment of apperent contradictions in the Bible. The frustration stems from the fact that there are explainations for all these apparent contradictions, and even if many Christians haven't thought about them, the scholars and theologians have worked out answers that are accessible in any public library or book store if you really want to look. Check "The Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties" by Gleason L. Archer Jr.

So, I realize that the contradictions I find in the Koran, or that some other Western scholar finds, probably have an explanaition. It is not my intent to attempt to discredit the Koran or attack your religion by siting such an apparent contradiction. I will also avoid the sensitive topic of apparently contradictory verses regarding Jews and Christians in light of the tragedy of September 11, 2001.

However, in order to address the issue of whether the Koran contains contradictions, I only need to provide even one trivial example to make the point that it is a false statement that "none whatsoever" have been found. Sura 96:1 translated by N. J. Dawood states "Recite in the name of your Lord who created, created man from clots of blood." However, Sura 32:7 of the same translation states "He first created man from clay, then bred his offspring from a drop of paltry fluid." Was man made from clay, or clots of blood? There is an apparent contradiction here.

It is my assertion from my own reading of the Koran, that the Koran is just AS baffling, beffudling, and contradictory to those of us who were not raised in Islamic culture and who do not speak Arabic as the Bible is to those who were not raised in Christian culture."

I have since been corrected on my spelling of the Qur'an by someone. The spelling I was using was based on Dawood, who I understand to be a practicing Muslim.


>However, we as Muslims accept your
>request or challenge as it
>seems to me on the
>topic of the Qur'an being
>the infallible word of God.
>I make this statement :
>
>The Qur'an does not have a
>single mistake in it.
>
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Please explain.

>Now, you may want to try
>to refute that statement, since
>you obviously do not believe
>in it.
>
In my response to Lulua's "Who Invented the Trinity?", I address the issues of my beliefs about Christ and the Trinity in sufficient detail and Biblical quotation for you to understand where I think the Qur'an is mistaken. Similar detail is provided in my response to the "101 Contradictions..." posting, to which I believe Firefly added the most to the discussion.

>Insha Allah i hope to have
>decent, meaningful discussions with you
>on this topic, and am
>hopeful more people will participate.
>One thing i'd like to
>point out from the very
>beginning, if i take time
>to respond, then plz bear
>with me, as i am
>quite busy nowadays and find
>it difficult to engage in
>debates or discussions.
>
I understand. I have a busy job myself, and may have less time to respond myself. I too hope that we can have a meaningful discussion. I come to this site to learn.

>Also, i'd like to point out
>to you that Anne Marie
>has made it clear herself
>she believes in more than
>one religion, pointing out to
>you that she is not
>a Muslim. It seems that
>in the past you had
>failed to grasp this message.
>
Yes and no. Muslims on this site have indicated that they are confused by Anne Marie's statements in places, and somewhere, someone asks her point blank "Are you a Muslim?" (I don't remember where). My point is that in her challenge to the Taliban, she speaks as though she defines herself as a Muslim and can speak authoritatively for your religion. Given what I've seen of her theology, I hope she is not doing the same in the name of Christianity on Christian sites. My post to her was meant to help her realize that this can be perceived as disrespectful. It seems from other postings appearing under this topic that some Muslims agree with me.
>
>Anyway, have a good day.
>Bye.
>Asif.

You have a great day too.

Peace and blessings!

jcecil3

[Anne Marie Habibi]

I make an apology.
I am a true believer in Islam and when I see and hear people doing wrong I feel strongly about what I believe and Have to say something about it I did not know only scholars could issue a fatwa thank you for clearing that up.

I so strongly believe that what the taliban are doing is wrong that I had to speak up for it is not right that the Quran and Islam gives women equal rights with men and then the taliban not allow them to work or be educated among other things.

I figured in my innocence that issuing a fatwa would get them to listen.

I intend to talk to Dr Badawi about this.

I thank you for your candid remarks.

I love Islam make no mistake about it.

I will not issue any further fatwas.

Thanks for your thoughts

[jcecil3]

Thank you for clearing up this merely apparent contradiction regarding the creation of man. I accept your interpretation. However, I do disagree with the test of infallibility that you put forth. Internal consistency ALONE does not indicate that a work is inspired by God. Please read Firefly's response to "101 Contradictions in the Bible" and my own responses to "A concise Reply to Christianity" for more on this, since I do not feel inclined to repeat myself right now.

P.S. -- I understand you are limited for time. I am in no rush for a response.