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tbahrain
23-09-2004, 08:54
If America Were Iraq
by Juan Cole

President Bush said Tuesday that the Iraqis are refuting the pessimists and implied that things are improving in that country.

What would America look like if it were in Iraq's current situation? The population of the U.S. is over 11 times that of Iraq, so a lot of statistics would have to be multiplied by that number.

Thus, violence killed 300 Iraqis last week, the equivalent proportionately of 3,300 Americans. What if 3,300 Americans had died in car bombings, grenade and rocket attacks, machine gun spray, and aerial bombardment in the last week? That is a number greater than the deaths on Sept. 11, and if America were Iraq, it would be an ongoing, weekly or monthly toll.

And what if those deaths occurred all over the country, including in the capital of Washington, D.C., but mainly above the Mason-Dixon line, in Boston, Minneapolis, Salt Lake City, and San Francisco?

What if the grounds of the White House and the government buildings near the Mall were constantly taking mortar fire? What if almost nobody in the State Department at Foggy Bottom, the White House, or the Pentagon dared venture out of their buildings, and considered it dangerous to go over to Crystal City or Alexandria?

What if all the reporters for all the major television and print media were trapped in five-star hotels in Washington, D.C., and New York, unable to move more than a few blocks safely, and dependent on stringers to know what was happening in Oklahoma City and St. Louis? What if the only time they ventured into the Midwest was if they could be embedded in Army or National Guard units?

There are estimated to be some 25,000 guerrillas in Iraq engaged in concerted acts of violence. What if there were private armies totaling 275,000 men, armed with machine guns, assault rifles (legal again!), rocket-propelled grenades, and mortar launchers, hiding out in dangerous urban areas of cities all over the country? What if they completely controlled Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Las Vegas, Denver and Omaha, such that local police and federal troops could not go into those cities?

What if, during the past year, the secretary of state (Aqilah Hashemi), the president (Izzedine Salim), and the attorney general (Muhammad Baqir al-Hakim) had all been assassinated?

What if all the cities in the U.S. were wracked by a crime wave, with thousands of murders, kidnappings, burglaries, and carjackings in every major city every year?

What if the Air Force routinely (I mean daily or weekly) bombed Billings, Mont., Flint, Mich., Watts in Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Anacostia in Washington, D.C., and other urban areas, attempting to target "safe houses" of "criminal gangs," but inevitably killing a lot of children and little old ladies?

What if, from time to time, the U.S. Army besieged Virginia Beach, killing hundreds of armed members of the Christian Soldiers? What if entire platoons of the Christian Soldiers militia holed up in Arlington National Cemetery, and were bombarded by U.S. Air Force warplanes daily, destroying thousands of graves and even pulverizing the Vietnam Memorial over on the Mall? What if the National Council of Churches had to call for a popular march of thousands of believers to converge on the National Cathedral to stop the U.S. Army from demolishing it to get at a rogue band of the Timothy McVeigh Memorial Brigades?

What if there were virtually no commercial air traffic in the country? What if many roads were highly dangerous, especially Interstate 95 from Richmond to Washington, D.C., and I-95 and I-91 up to Boston? If you got on I-95 anywhere along that over 500-mile stretch, you would risk being carjacked, kidnapped, or having your car sprayed with machine gun fire.

What if no one had electricity for much more than 10 hours a day, and often less? What if it went off at unpredictable times, causing factories to grind to a halt and air conditioning to fail in the middle of the summer in Houston and Miami? What if the Alaska pipeline were bombed and disabled at least monthly? What if unemployment hovered around 40%?

What if veterans of militia actions at Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City bombing were brought in to run the government on the theory that you need a tough guy in these times of crisis?

What if municipal elections were canceled and cliques close to the new "president" quietly installed in the statehouses as "governors"? What if several of these governors (especially of Montana and Wyoming) were assassinated soon after taking office or resigned when their children were taken hostage by guerrillas?

What if the leader of the European Union maintained that the citizens of the United States are, under these conditions, refuting pessimism and that freedom and democracy are just around the corner?

Lulua
23-09-2004, 11:22
Assalaamu alaikum.

Interesting.

What if...what if...what if...what if the US administration used their minds and logic and worked for the interest of mankind...and not for the interest of their own pockets?? Then surely...we would have a much safer and calmer world to live in.

Lulua.

tbahrain
23-09-2004, 11:27
Wa alaikum salam, sister.

More interesting would be What If There Were No USA but The Indian Nation and No Australia but The Land of The Aborogines?

lubna
23-09-2004, 11:59
Assalamoalykum brother tbahrain

here is my what if,

what if after reading your post some of the americans died of heart attack!......
ok apart from joke
what if they turned around and said to the writer jaun Cole, and we thought you were on our side!.
or what if the americans said after reading this post , we didnt know things are that bad in iraq!

and here is the good one
what if Allah's help is very near inshaAllah and we muslims are getting impatient for no reason!

may Allah give victory to the muslims Ameen
wassalam
your sister in islam
lubna

tbahrain
23-09-2004, 15:10
Wa alaikum salam sister lubna.

I like the last 'what if' better :)

cman2
23-09-2004, 17:11
what if iraq blamed this on the people responsible saddam and the islam extremeists that are causing the continuance of the war

Tayeb
23-09-2004, 19:15
Hello cman2:

Do you seriously believe that the resistance in Iraq is carried out only by Saddam loyalists and Islamic "extremists"?

Ma'a-salaama,

Mr Green
23-09-2004, 23:07
Salaams,

Whilst I do think the original post might help to jolt those of us sitting in our armchairs in front of our tv sets at home every evening in the west, and starting to settle into the "normal" routine of hearing how many more innocent Iraqis have been murdered, and how the violence continues unabated, and starting perhaps to think like Mr Bush, that things really are not so bad after all, that Iraq is a better place now, even if the violence seems to continue unabated, what if...

... what if we just got on with our lives in the best way we could, trying to become better Muslims and people, doing whatever we can, however we can, to help our fellow brothers and sisters, in Iraq, in Palestine, in Chechnya, and in every other nation on this planet, be they Muslim or non-Muslim, and to spread understanding of this noble religion of ours for the greater good of humanity... and put our faith completely in Allaah, ultimately leaving all things in His Hands.

Wa salaams

cman2
24-09-2004, 14:44
yes i beleive that most of the iraqi people are truly peace loving people who want to see their kids in school, they want water and electricity, they want their daughters to stop being raped etc.

if the extremeists would get out of the way and let this country develop it could someday be a decent place to live.

For people to blame this on the US is wrong, Saddam brought all of this on.

Lulua
24-09-2004, 19:55
Assalaamu alaikum.

Yes...perhaps Saddam did have a major part in the downfall of Iraq...but certainly not alone.

Anyways, it was the Americans...and the American invaders alone (along with their side-kick of the Brits) who, after first 'conquering' the country, bombed the fresh water pipelines to bits, yet immediately ensured the repair and structure and near-immediate operation of the oil pipelines which serviced Israel, and at the same time shut down those pipelines pumping to the Jordanian shores.

All the while...the poor public of Iraq whom they so proudly claimed to be saving for democracy...were left without water, sewage, electricity, medical facilities, and other such necessary humanitary emergency services for months on end!!

Yes...freedom indeed. And democracy. But for whom.? And at the price of what!!

Please go on to tell us how the Americans are and were working for the betterment of Iraq. Perhaps those of AbuGharib can tell us all better.

Lulua.

tbahrain
25-09-2004, 07:50
Assalamualaikum, my dear Sr Lubna. Perhaps the following article will make you understand the Americans (the people not the government) a little better. It certainly does for me.

How to Avoid Becoming an Anti-American
By M. Junaid Alam

A specter is haunting America - the specter of anti-Americanism. All the powers of patriotic America have entered into a corporate alliance to exorcise this specter: draft-deferrers and women-gropers, grammar-challenged and duel-challengers, oil diggers and grave diggers. It is the duty of all upstanding American citizens to fully understand and identify the leading symptoms of anti-Americanism, so that our homes, homeless shelters, reading chambers, torture chambers, chocolate refineries, weapons factories, and places of worship, such as churches, temples, and Wall Street, are completely free from the poison of anti-war sentiment. The patriotic American must save both himself and others from becoming an anti-American American by learning to be an active, honorable, anti-anti-American American. It is with this pressing obligation in mind that the following signs of anti-Americanism have been compiled and exposed.

The most irksome and identifiable feature of the anti-American American is his flagrant abuse of the First Amendment. He deviously twists and distorts his constitutionally-guaranteed right to free speech by exercising this right - at a time when an important event is underway, no less: the war in Iraq, and more broadly, the so-called war on terror. It should be obvious to the reasonable American that, in times of war, speaking one's mind is quite a dangerous and reckless act: there is, after all, only so much free speech to go around, and, as our soldiers are busily bringing it to inferior races via cruise missiles and cluster bombs abroad, there is little left for consumption at home.

Muting criticism of our leaders and staying silent about the direction of our country is also a sound tactic for fighting terrorist dead-enders head on. By complacently sitting back and letting the government pass unconstitutional laws that infringe on the right to privacy, the right to a fair trial, and freedom of speech, we demoralize the dark evil-doers by showing to them in no uncertain terms that they can never snatch away our rights and civil liberties: only our own president and Congress can do that, and by enthusiastically allowing this internal process of destruction, we cause great agony for the powerless terrorists.

Patriots should also understand that calling for an end to the war and advocating bringing the troops home puts troops at great risk, endangers their morale, gives comfort to the enemy, and contributes to the clubbing of baby seals. The irresponsibility of attacking the war is crystal clear: over 150,000 Americans are currently enjoying their extended vacations in exotic locales, freeing them from the hellish, tedious troubles of friends, family, home, and the country they grew up in. Could any good American truly wish to deprive them of this luxury? Our soldiers are merrily mixing with different peoples, forging important personal relationships, taking in the pleasant scenery, and making a lasting impression with millions of foreigners. To call for an end to this enchanted cultural exchange program is nothing short of treason.

Calling into question the overall tactics and strategy of the war is equally unconscionable. Decisions about war plans have already been made well in advance by intelligent and competent individuals, who have acquired a very sharp, reasoned understanding of military affairs by carefully observing their fellow countrymen fighting and dying in war from afar, sparing themselves from the deceptive and delusional experience of actual combat. Therefore, to say in reference to the war Iraq - as various wild-eyed leftists do - that "There are no good options," that there is "no sense of the realities on the ground", that "the priorities are all just wrong" is dangerous nonsense. Saying that "we're achieving Bin Laden's ends," that "this is far graver than Vietnam," is also completely outrageous rubbish that appeases the enemy. Former general and National Security Agency chief William Odom and former marine commander and head of US CENTCOM Joseph Hoare should really think hard before saying such things again in the future.

Above all, the anti-American American attempts to dupe and deceive the unsuspecting citizen with a long list of supposed "root causes" of terrorism which must be recognized and addressed in order to make us safer. Among these supposed "root causes" are our support for tyrannical Arab dictators who suppress their people's rights, backing of a brutal colonial regime in Israel that tortures, occupies, and ethnically cleanses the native population, lack of reparations for enforcing sanctions that killed hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, bombing that country into rubble, and then occupying it. Highbrow, snobby leftist liberal elites think there is some kind of "connection" between this behavior of terrorizing others and Islamist terrorism against us.

But this is sheer nonsense: Arabs don't really care much that we've starved, strangled, tortured, beaten, bombed, bulldozed, killed, and maimed them directly or indirectly for decades, because - unlike us - they don't place much value on human life. The real reason they hate us is because of their mindless, reckless hatred of everything that's good in the world (that's us), because we are free, democratic and virtuous.

Which well explains the logic of the current war. For as we let our rights erode with Guantanomization of dissent, as we engage in atrocities like the sadism of Abu Ghraib, as we chain ourselves to interminable terror alerts and color-code warnings of imminent mass death, we will soon lose every last vestige of freedom, democracy, and virtue we currently possess - thus forcing Arab insurgents and terrorists everywhere to fall in love with America, drop their weapons, and sue for peace.

God Bless America! Or Else.

Lulua
25-09-2004, 12:49
Assalaamu alaikum.

SubhanAllah. Sue for peace. What an enticing idea indeed!! And so 'american' as well. Interesting.

Lulua.

lubna
25-09-2004, 18:34
Waalykum assalam brother tbahrain
indeed an article full of insight, dont know whether to laugh or cry.

it reminds me an article i read of sam hamoud named 'topsy tervy land' or was it 'alice in wonderland'....

here is something i got and i will name it as, ' from american to no american' or 'truth told by rotten corpses'

may Allah guide us all to the truth and give muslims a swift victory Ameen
wassalam wr wb
your sister in islam
lubna


http://www.albasrah.net/images/3loj/mass-grave-us-soldiers.htm

http://www.iraqwar.mirror-world.ru/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=24288

tbahrain
28-09-2004, 12:12
Assalamualaikum All.

Here's a blog I came across and think it's relevant to post in this thread.


Election Double Standards

Alot of bloggers are decrying this Rumsfeldian comment:

"Let's say you tried to have an election and you could have it in three-quarters or four-fifths of the country in some places you couldn't because the violence was too great," Rumsfeld said. "So be it. Nothing's perfect in life. You have an election that's not quite perfect. Is it better than not having an election? You bet."

Asked later by reporters to elaborate, Rumsfeld said: "Is it dangerous? You bet. Will there be elections? I think so. Might there be some portion of the country where the terrorists decide they're going to mess things up? Possibly. Does that mean that there won't be elections? No."

How does that statement stack up against this?

US officials are looking at ways to postpone the 2 November presidential poll should "terrorists" attack the United States near election time, a US magazine is reporting.

Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge on Friday said: "Al-Qaida is moving forward with its plans to carry out a large-scale attack in the United States in an effort to disrupt our democratic process." However, he admitted US intelligence had no information about any specific plot.

But unnamed counterterrorism officials told Newsweek on Sunday they were considering a proposal to delay balloting in the event of an attack.

So, it's OK to have elections in Iraq despite the violence and attacks which would leave out large swaths of the country including the capital(!), but in the US...well, that's a different story.

I wish I could say that I find it hard to believe that opposition parties in the US aren't pointing this out, but considering the TweedleDee and TweedleDumb-ness of this election, it isn't at all surprising. I do think many Iraqis noticed the hypocritical double standard.

tbahrain
28-09-2004, 12:21
Assalamualaikum Sis Lubna.

Thanks for directing me to the iraqwar site. I was a regular visitor to this site some months back but this site was subsequently closed. I am glad it is back in operation as I find the infomation here is quite current and most are not available somewhere else.