View Full Version : Boy killed for breaking Ramadan fast
wildlifer
24-11-2004, 08:54
http://www.iranpressnews.com/english/images/00/shallagh.2
2004 Tuesday 16 November
A 14 year old boy is sentenced to 85 lashes for breaking his Ramadan fast !
A 14 year old boy died on Thursday, November 11th, after having received 85 lashes; according to the ruling of the Mullah judge of the public circuit court in the town of Sanandadj he was guilty of breaking his fast during the month of Ramadan.
The Kurdish site Rojeh“heh Lāt reports that the young man“s identity has not been disclosed. He was scheduled for burial on Saturday, November 13th (after 3 days at the local morgue), in the cemetery of Beheshteh Mohammadi in Sanandadj. However due to the public“s realization of the events surrounding the boy“s circumstances the cemetery was stormed [in protest] and his burial did not take place.
According to informed sources, supervisors have instructed that the burial take place in the presence of his closest relatives, surveyed by security forces.
© copyright 2004 - IranPressNews.com All Rights Reserved
THIS CAN NEVER BE A TRUE NEWS AT ALL!!
but a typical false propaganda against islam and muslims.
and how can any muslim accept it, is beyond my imagination!! how come sis eemaan quickly came with a comment,
''This is just another example of how people misinterpret the laws in Islam.''
if you as a muslim are ''sure that this action is wrong in islam'' than how come you think/accept all the others who are in the authority dont know a simple thing like this!!
we as muslims dont accept any news without verifying it! you accepted the news and said,
'' However I will find out for sure what the islamic ruling and correct punishment , if any, is for deliberatley abstaining from fasting the priscribed fast of Ramadaan.''
there is no punishment of lashes in islam for breaking the fast delibrately but is a thing called '' kaffarah'' which is to keep 60 constant fasts or to feed 60 people or give the equivalent of money.
and how come in the crowed of all those muslims watching none of them knew this?
when they lie they lie bad!! so i am not buying this at all!! infact am laughing at the stupidity of the news maker, news poster and the news accepter!!
though wildlifer has an excuse.... he is an athiest.... what does he know about religion let alone islam!
Hello wildlifer, srs eemaan:
Firstly I didn't read Sr eemaan's response, as she deleted her response.
What's www.iranpressnews.com (67.18.160.230)? We did who's and response was:
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Now my first comment is that www.iranpressnews.com isn't a verifiable news agency. It seems from what I read on the web that it's nothing but a hate-the-Iranians propaganda site. Is Iran next target for oil hungry America?
There's no such a punishment in Islam. Breaking fast is something personal between me the human being and Allah. It isn't a public crime, something like stealing or fornicating, it's something private between me and Allah. I am not affecting another human being so it isn't a public crime.
Only people ignorant of Islam can accept this news as a defacto and some people in corporate petrol interests in Texas ;) might want to believe in.
Anyway using Iraninan term "Hari Raya" (celebration of end of fasting) is already 1 week past late and the date of news isn't coincidental with Ramadhan.
There may be a public outrage if someone breaks fast publicly, but nobody can punish us - even "ignorant" ulama - but only Allah and He has special guidelines of paying back our breaking of a convenant with Him as rightly Sr lubna has mentioned.
So I'd debunk this news wildlifer! My response is :D :D :D good imagination!
JAZAKALLAH brother tayeb
Alhumdulillah..... :D :D
and some more jazakallah for giving me more laughs as i already was laughing....
and mr. wildlifer.... you better grow up now or... wake up now ... whatever fits in your case, as your english is better than mine.......i am just learning.
As-Salamu-Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah !
I have to agree with everyone else here. This piece of news seems highly suspicious because I am absolutely unaware of any law in the Shariah that stipulates that an individual who breaks his/her fast is to be lashed.
I did not get the opportunity to read Sister Eeman's message, so perhaps I am in no position to say this, but perhaps a gentler response would've been better. :)
Allah Knows Best.
Wassalam,
Asif.
Assalaamu alaikum.
I was suspicious of this news story since the first time I read it on here. In fact, it was my suspicion which kept me from answering anything.
Anyways...I find it rather odd that such a story has not made it to the main sources of news. Even the media of the west...newspapers and satellite tv stations. I mean...u would think that such a story...if true...would make it to international news services.
But then again...what is the true source of this report??
Anyways, as the others have so clearly pointed out...breaking the fast is not a public crime. It is something personal between the person and his Creator.
As well...even if a person breaks the fast, whether in public or in private...what can the onlookers know about that person's personal situation? I mean...perhaps he is in the state of travel, or is ill with any kind of a disease or ailment which gives him legality in breaking the fast.
Also, it is mentioned in the story, that the boy in question is 14 years old. Still quite young. Not all families train their youngsters from a very early age to fast. Perhaps he himself is not yet accustomed to the fast in proper manner, and so is still in the learning stage of the fast.
Many things need to be taken into consideration.
As well, even IF this story is true...then the verdict passed is a wrong one, according to Islamic rulings. There is no historical or religious evidence of either imprisonment or lashes being given as punishment for breaking the fast. In fact, it is something that the state or governing authority does not deal into, for as previously mentioned, the fast is a private affair, not public.
And Allah knows best in all instances.
Lulua.
------
Tried to log onto that site...the iranpress news. Couldn't get into the English version. I mean...only blank white page came up. No news. The arabic page...read thru it...couldn't find any headline any ways near what this story is about. Perhaps an invention??
Anyways...this thought also came to mind. Perhaps yet another feable attempt at widening the sunni-shia divide???
Anyways...whatever this is all about...seems like the bubble has been burst.
:eek:
wildlifer
24-11-2004, 17:11
First from lubna:
though wildlifer has an excuse.... he is an athiest.... what does he know about religion let alone islam!
You know nothing of the path I traveled to atheism. In fact it was through the investigation of scripture and religion that I became an atheist.
As far as the story goes, who knows? I found it peculiar it listed a Kurdish source.
First from lubna:
You know nothing of the path I traveled to atheism. In fact it was through the investigation of scripture and religion that I became an atheist.
Whilst you are right that we have no idea what you have been through or the amount of research you might've done (or might not have done) to make the choice of becoming an atheist, one thing is for certain (which I think is what Sister Lubna was primarily trying to point out), you do not seem to have alot of knowledge of Islamic Law.
Plz don't take this as a personal attack, for it is genuinely and sincerely not my attention to attack you or your character, but I am merely trying to say that you seem to have limited knowledge of Islam and Islamic Law (and this is quite understandable, since you're a non-Muslim and very few non-Muslims are knowledgeable about Islam and the Shariah).
wildlifer
24-11-2004, 22:51
Hello wildlifer, srs eemaan:
There's no such a punishment in Islam. Breaking fast is something personal between me the human being and Allah. It isn't a public crime, something like stealing or fornicating, it's something private between me and Allah. I am not affecting another human being so it isn't a public crime.
So I'd debunk this news wildlifer! My response is :D :D :D good imagination!
Among the (Sharia) laws enacted by the Qadhafi government a series of legal penalties prescribed during 1973 included the punishment of armed robbery by amputation of a hand and a foot. The legislation contained qualifying clauses making its execution unlikely, but its enactment had the effect of applying Quranic principles in the modern era. Another act prescribed flogging for individuals breaking the fast of Ramadan, and yet another called for eighty lashes to be administered to both men and women guilty of fornication.
And the web has a plethora of first-hand accounts - Iranian, Afghani under the Taliban, and others - of punishments for violating the fast, all inclusive under Islamic or Sharia Law.
Akbar Muhammad
Associate Professor of history and Africana studies at Binghamton University in New York
...Islam is a very flexible system, and it has been very flexible for centuries. What I mean by that is that differences of opinion have been accepted within Islam and given legitimacy by some of the highest authorities in Islam. Thus in certain areas of the Sharia, one country may differ from another country. One community may differ from another community, even in the same country. We interpret the Sharia in the South, let's say, in Alabama, in this particular area of marriage and divorce or whatever, in this way. You people in New York, in New Jersey, and elsewhere, you interpret it differently. We are all correct. And we have agreed on that.
But that is not strange. Why should it be? Divorce law in various states of the United States differ. The acceptance of homosexuality, legal acceptance of, permission, et cetera, differ from one state to the other. So we can have a national, we can have a federal state, but there are differences within those states. I'm saying, similarly, Islamic law is not one thing. It's not monolithic, as American law is not monolithic, as Western law is not monolithic. So we should be very careful about saying, "Well, this is a violation of the Sharia."
Do those differences come from the cultures?
Yes. Absolutely. The Sharia is definitely affected by local cultures, regional cultures. We cannot really talk about national cultures. But we can talk about regional cultures, and we can talk about local cultures. There are different schools of thought within the Sharia. ...
Another act prescribed flogging for individuals breaking the fast of Ramadan, and yet another called for eighty lashes to be administered to both men and women guilty of fornication.
This is quite interesting really. I will try asking Muslim scholars about this particular question (and would request the others to do the same). But, as was mentioned previously, I am absolutely unaware of any such law existing.
You may read the following article to gain further insight into the subject:
http://www.islamfortoday.com/ramadan01.htm
You will notice that nowhere do they mention flogging individuals for breaking the fast. A person who breaks his/her fast has to make-up his fast (Qadha fast) and may even need to make Kaffarah (he/she will be penalized) for breaking the fast (depending on the circumstances, which have been quite clearly mentioned in the article above).
An excerpt from the article:
"Things that not only require Qada but also Kaffarah are the following:
Sexual intercourse during fasting(dawn to dusk). The penalty is to fast an additional period of 60 continuous days. If one is not able to do so then he must feed sixty poor people-one average meal each.
Before the days of the Prophet Muhammad(S.A.W.), slavery was a common practice in the Arab world. Islam eliminated slavery from the society in a very short period of time. A useful approach was to allow people free a slave as a charity or as a penalty for a sin. Thus during the time of the Prophet(S.A.W.), setting a slave free was the penalty one must pay as a kaffarah, if he or she had a slave."
It is for this reason all of us have expressed great surprise at the piece of news you shared with us. This is not something any of us have ever heard of and it is not something any Muslim scholar(that we know of) has ever made mention of.
It is quite possible, though, that this may be a ruling from Shia Fiqh. We're mostly Sunnis on this website and not many of us (if at all any) have much knowledge of Shia Fiqh (and the Shias themselves have so many different sects).
Anyhow, if that is the case, then it doesn't matter, because the Shariah is from the four madhabs (which I made mention of in another post on another thread) and not from anything belonging outside of these four madhabs.
Allah Knows Best.
Bye,
Asif.
wildlifer
25-11-2004, 03:46
Thanks Asif,
But as I'm reading around there seems to be more and more abstract interpretation based on cultural differences. From one of your previous statements in the other thread, all it seems to take would be for the community to decide and agree, then it would be "true."
Thanks Asif,
But as I'm reading around there seems to be more and more abstract interpretation based on cultural differences. From one of your previous statements in the other thread, all it seems to take would be for the community to decide and agree, then it would be "true."
When I said "community", I did not mean individual communities living here and there in different parts of the world. I meant the Prophet's Ummah, i.e. the Prophet's followers - his community.
When the Muslim Ummah (the Muslim nation, the Muslim community) agrees on something, then that thing is the truth, i.e. when the four madhabs of Islam (the Hanafis, Shafi'is, Maalikis and the Hanbalis) agree on something, then that thing is Haqq (truth). Allah Knows Best.
Bye,
Asif.
Hello wildlifer:
My late father used to say "you hear what you want to hear". That's only explanation I can give for various articles you are searching.
As far as I know of Lybians having been there as a journalist, a year after the American attack on Lybia, during Reagan presidency, I found them then having a quite "relaxed" attitude towards Islam. We were staying at a Hotel in Tripoli, which served also as a Conference Center. When it came to prayer time, we saw the Lybians running away and not participating in regular prayers (we as Muslims have to pray 5 times a day). Their TV had music and dances, including mixed dances between men and women (contrary to Sharia practises) and Kaddafi used to move around with female bodyguards that didn't observe hijab (wearing of veil to cover the hair).
Any Muslim who has basic Islamic knowledge knows that breaking fast is allowed in special circunstances, and even if we don't observe fast, it's something personal. Allah has brought fast for Muslims but that's a personal matter between a Muslim and his Creator Allah. As I said before, and has been repeated here by other participants in this thread, it's not a public crime, like stealing, murdering, raping etc. punishable with Hudood (Penal) Laws of Islamic Shariah and in Shariah there are no such punishment for breaking the fast of Ramadhan. And it's a fact though you might like to hear otherwise.
Om_Mohammed
25-11-2004, 12:13
Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.
Greetings to all.
I would not take seriously (Islamic wise) anything coming from Qaddafi and/or his regime. He is world famous for his long and late-night vigils of belly dancers and prostitute games, and has been witnessed many times even in public presentations or speeches in a drunken state. All basically illegal acts and behaviour in Islam.
So, any Islamic verdict coming from him or his supporters is in dire question, if believable at all.
Even if any public statement or judgement or ruling coming from him or his supporters happens to be in truth agreement with the shariah, it would most likely be a high coincidence.
Om Mohammed.
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