View Full Version : If you possess knowledge of potential extremist plots
The following has been taken from the Hanafi Fiqh mailing list
Question: If someone knows about potential extremist plotting against public interest in a Western country, what is our duty? Would it be ‘giving up on a Muslim’s rights’ to inform the police?
Answer: In the Name of God, Most Merciful and Compassionate
May God’s peace and blessings be upon His Messenger Muhammad, his folk, companions, and followers
Walaikum assalam wa rahmatullah,
I consulted a number of leading scholars about this, and they responded similarly:
1. When one has good reason to believe that particular Muslims are engaged in activities clearly harmful to the public interest—such as terrorism or other un-Islamic modes of subversion—it is one’s religious obligation to either stop them when that is likely to be effective, or to report them to the authorities without hesitation. This is because it is personally obligatory to stop harm when one is able to (directly or indirectly). In fact, the very basis of the Sacred Law of Islam is on promoting the good and preventing the wrong. [Ibn Abd al-Salam, al-Qawa`id al-Kubra]
2. However, one should act with wisdom, and not engage in wrongful accusation of innocent Muslims (whether one agrees or disagrees with them or their understanding).
3. It is a communal duty for Muslims to undertake proper planning to improve relations with government agencies, influential groups in society, local communities, and the media in order to safeguard Muslim rights and avert or minimize the negative consequences of these un-Islamic terrorist acts on Muslims. Muslims, as individuals and communities, should hasten in any relief work related to assist those affected by such terrorist activities, as this is part of the duty one owes the land one lives in.
4. At a personal level, it is the duty of each Muslim to realize that they are an ambassador for their faith, and to stick fast to the excellence of conduct and behavior that Islam has enjoined every believer to uphold. After all, our Prophet Muhammad (God bless him and give him peace) has told us that, “I was only sent to perfect righteous character.” [Related by Imam Ahmad; Shaykh Shu`ayb Arna’ut said that this is rigorously authentic (sahih)] The teachings of the Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) regarding excellence of conduct can be found in Imam Nawawi’s Riyad al-Salihin (‘The Gardens of the Righteous’), and in Imam Bukhari’s al-Adab al-Mufrad (‘Muslim Morals and Manners’).
A Muslim’s Duty to Stop the Wrong
The Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Whoever of you sees wrong should stop it with their hands. If you are unable, then stop it with your words. If you are unable, then hate it in your hearts—and that is the least of faith.” [Related by Muslim, and others, on the authority of Abu Sa`id (God be pleased with him); rigorously authentic (sahih)]
One should remember clearly the words of God in the Qur’an:
004.135 O you who believe! Be you staunch in justice, witnesses for God, even though it be against yourselves, your parents, or your relations. If they are rich or poor, then (know that) God is nearer unto both (than you are). So follow not your caprice lest you lapse (from truth) and if you lapse or fall away, then lo! God is ever Informed of what you do.
And:
005.008 O you who believe! Be steadfast witnesses for God in equity, and let not dislike of any people seduce you that you deal not justly. Deal justly, that is nearer to your duty. Observe your duty to God. Lo! God is Informed of what you do.
005.009 God has promised those who believe and do good works: Theirs will be forgiveness and immense reward.
Imam Baydawi mentions in his Qur’an exegesis that the meaning of being ‘staunch in justice’ is to strive unfailingly to establish justice, and to be ‘witnesses for God’ in that one’s giving witness is in order to seek the pleasure of God—through doing that which is pleasing to Him.
It is clear that one of the most odious of human actions to God Most High is the taking of innocent lives. God Most High tells us in the Qur’an,
005.032 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if he had killed all humanity, and whoso saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all humanity. Our messengers came unto them of old with clear proofs, but afterwards lo! many of them became prodigals in the earth.
The Messenger of God (peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Beware of wrongdoing, for wrongdoing becomes manifold darknesses on the Day of Judgment.” [Related by Muslim, Ahmad, and others in their works of hadith; rigorously authentic (sahih)]
Qadi Iyad and others mention in their commentaries on Sahih Muslim that ‘manifold darkness’ could be understood to be literal—the consequence of which would be absolute loss, bewilderment, and distress; or it could mean severe distress and intense punishment.
May God inspire us to remain steadfast in upholding the truth, and to acting with uprightness and dignity without fail. And God alone gives success.
Wassalam,
Faraz Rabbani
www.SunniPath.com – http://www.seekersdigest.org/
Wa-alaikum-as-salaam:
It reminds me of a case of a person representing views here in myiwc.coim that made him suspicious of being member of a terrorist cell in a determined country of the world. Somebody surely with good intentions contacted me to request details on this person. I refused and made it clear that we have a duty to protect the anonymity of members of this discussion board. Anyhow I assure everyone that the person wasn't residing in that country, as his IP showed clearly. But anyhow it's an example of the reigning paranonia.
I might want to read with interest any inquest on the killing last Thursady of an innocent Brazillian man at Stockwell underground station, London, by policemen dressed as civilians. Was he denounced as a probable terrorist? Were the informers Muslims? Was he victim of terrorism paranoia, because he wasn't white caucasian and looked like an Arab or Pakistani?
The police have resources and let them do the work they are paid for. We cannot become all spies and live in a climate of witchunting! We ought not substitute ourselves to police work. That's my humble opinion.
I as Admin assure members of this discussion board that we won't give out any details on any member of this discussion board.
Ma'a-salaama,
It does not matter what religion one has,it is our duty as God's children to protect human life.I believe that only God can take a life,and we as his children should protect each as if it was our family.There is so much sadness why cant everyone get along?The world would be nice place if we only had peace and harmony on this earth............God help us all to be kinder to each other and reach out our hands to people in need............May God bless all
Dear sr johara:
It isn't a question of saving lives - as all of us are in favour of it. The british police are now with orders of shoot to kill. In fact extra-judicial killings are the norm, as we saw with regard to an innocent brazillian in London - first shoot and then ask if he's still alive. What will be the next? Missile strikes against cars and homes of suspected Muslim militants as we see regularly in Palestine? Where will they draw the line?
What I am worried about is that we Muslims become spies and start witch-hunting making false claims against our own neighbours and brethren. We have seen with the case of July 7 bombings that the families of suppposed bombers didn't know of their activities.
Police are paid to do their job and they have their own paid or unpaid informers. Let them do their work and let's not substitute ourselves in their work as there's a great risk that we end up becoming part of a society under siege. We start doing things that were done in communist and fascist regimes where people were taken during the middle of the night and never seen again, often denounced by their own neighbours, friends and family. Aren't Guantanamo and Belmarsh new Gulags, the difference being that it is now so-called democratic and freedom-loving countries that hold people without due processes of law?
Ma'a-salaama,
Assalamoalykum all
you are absolutely right brother Tayeb!
may Allah guide us all to the truth Ameen.
wassalam
lubna
As-Salamu-Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah !
It reminds me of a case of a person representing views here in myiwc.coim that made him suspicious of being member of a terrorist cell in a determined country of the world. Somebody surely with good intentions contacted me to request details on this person. I refused and made it clear that we have a duty to protect the anonymity of members of this discussion board. Anyhow I assure everyone that the person wasn't residing in that country, as his IP showed clearly. But anyhow it's an example of the reigning paranonia.
1. Akhi, whilst I am unaware of which individual you are referring to here, I would just like to make a general statement on this issue: Just because someone airs views that may be regarded as extremist, does not necessarily mean he is part of a terrorist cell or organization. I'm not saying that this is what you are saying, but I wish to make this point absolutely clear for everyone.
2. I absolutely agree with your decision not to have revealed this individual's personal details without his permission. One must respect everyone's right to privacy. We simply cannot throw around the personal details of people on the internet (or anywhere else for that matter), especially not without their permission.
The police have resources and let them do the work they are paid for. We cannot become all spies and live in a climate of witchunting! We ought not substitute ourselves to police work. That's my humble opinion.
I humbly disagree with you on this particular point akhi. It is the duty of the citizens of any nation to help the members of the police force(s) carry out their duty.
For example, if there is a murderer on the loose, then wouldn't it be the duty of a citizen to inform the police of the murderer's whereabouts if he/she knows anything at all about the matter? If you had knowledge on the whereabouts of kidnapper, then wouldn't it be your duty to inform the police about his/her whereabouts?
The police cannot be everywhere. It is our duty to help them. We must all uphold the law and assist the police in doing so. This is the way to fight crime and terrorism.
Wassalam,
Asif.
As-Salamu-Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah !
What I am worried about is that we Muslims become spies and start witch-hunting making false claims against our own neighbours and brethren. We have seen with the case of July 7 bombings that the families of suppposed bombers didn't know of their activities.
I certainly hope that no one makes false claims about anyone else. And you are right, the families of the alleged bombers did not know of their activities.
However, what if they had known? Then it would have been their duty to inform the police about a potential extremist/terrorist plot. Allah says in the Qur'an: "O you who believe! Be you staunch in justice, witnesses for God, even though it be against yourselves, your parents, or your relations. If they are rich or poor, then (know that) God is nearer unto both (than you are). So follow not your caprice lest you lapse (from truth) and if you lapse or fall away, then lo! God is ever Informed of what you do." (Surah 4, ayah 135)
Police are paid to do their job and they have their own paid or unpaid informers. Let them do their work and let's not substitute ourselves in their work as there's a great risk that we end up becoming part of a society under siege. We start doing things that were done in communist and fascist regimes where people were taken during the middle of the night and never seen again, often denounced by their own neighbours, friends and family. Aren't Guantanamo and Belmarsh new Gulags, the difference being that it is now so-called democratic and freedom-loving countries that hold people without due processes of law?
Again, I disagree with your opinion on "letting the police do the job". As I said in the previous post, it is the duty of society as a whole to uphold the law and make sure that everyone abides by it. Doing this is hardly comparable to the actions of fascist and communist regimes/societies.
It is one thing to punish the innocent (and this is not what the article I posted is advocating), and quite another to punish the guilty and/or make sure that they are unable to carry out any crimes (which is what the article I posted is advocating).
Wassalam,
Asif.
Assalamu-alaikum br Asif:
I beg to disagree with you on denouncing fellow Muslims unless we have really hard evidence. Say I see a cousin or a son of mine preparing a bomb that will maim and kill innocent civilians. I'll first try to stop him and if I cannot I will inform the police to avoid a greater harm and something that's totally prohibited in Islam.
Now to denonunce one has to be careful. If I hear the said cousin is doing this or that activity, I ought not denounce him unless I have a hard evidence. We may end up witch-hunting.
I saw these things in communist Mozambique when I was there briefly from 1981 to 1983. People were seeking revenge and even to harm each other by making false accusations.
May Allah protect us from such fitnah.
Ma'a-salaama,
Assalamu-alaikum br Asif
Wa Alaykum As Salaam Akhi !
I beg to disagree with you on denouncing fellow Muslims unless we have really hard evidence. Say I see a cousin or a son of mine preparing a bomb that will maim and kill innocent civilians. I'll first try to stop him and if I cannot I will inform the police to avoid a greater harm and something that's totally prohibited in Islam.
I do not see where we disagree on this particular point. Try to stop him from committing a crime, and if you fail to do so, then inform the police.
Now to denonunce one has to be careful. If I hear the said cousin is doing this or that activity, I ought not denounce him unless I have a hard evidence. We may end up witch-hunting.
1. As I said, we should be very careful not to make false claims. One must verify everything and make sure that it is the truth.
2. But once you are quite sure that a certain individual (irrespective of what his religion is) is plotting an extremist/terrorist attack, and if you have failed to deter him from doing so, then immediately inform the police. Such matters cannot be taken lightly. The lives of innocent people are at stake.
I do not see how witch-hunting will begin if steps are taken in an appropriate manner.
However, to say that one must protect one's Muslim brothers and sisters from the police, inspite of them having broken the law or preparing to do so, is not right. This is especially true if innocent lives are at stake.
As you yourself quoted an ayah from the Qur'an on another thread:
"whoso saveth the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the life of all mankind." (Qur'an 5:32).
I don't think the article is advocating witch-hunts and sending the innocent away to prison. What it is saying, however, is that we must help prevent innocent lives from being taken.
Wassalam,
Asif.
Wa-alaikum-as-salaam:
The original post did not seem to indicate the subtle differences I have pointed out.
It said right at the beginning:
"When one has good reason to believe that particular Muslims are engaged in activities clearly harmful to the public interest—such as terrorism or other un-Islamic modes of subversion—it is one’s religious obligation to either stop them when that is likely to be effective, or to report them to the authorities without hesitation."
It doesn't say regardless of religion. It targets Muslims, obviously because the message is for Muslims. It says un-Islamic modes of subversion. What's this subversion thing?
I am certain that a number of Muslims that are kidnapped around the World and taken to Egypt and elsewhere to be tortured are denounced by bounty hunters and not only but nevertheless fellow Muslims. A number of Palestinian leaders that have been murdered by the Israelis have been sold out by fellow Muslims.
On kidnappings of Muslims check the following link on 60-minute program by CBS News:
http://kutv.com/topstories/topstories_story_205201451.html
That's why I am personally against witch-hunting. I feel we need to educate our fellow Muslims to be careful in not causing harm to their own brethren just because they have suspicion. If the British police can't fight home grown terrorism in a population of 1,6 million Muslims, what are the British doing in Iraq with a population of 26 million, that are clearly hostile towards them?
Ma'a-salaama,
Assalamoalykum
i have a sugession, why dont all Pakistani muslims enrole themselves in the police, at least then no innocent brazillian will get killed and also their own lives will be saved too....:)
and more importantly they can RUN too, as at present no black or asian looking guy can run but only police and white people....:):)
i am sorry pakistani folks no jogging for you lot! and no chance for you to run and catch a bus either. be extra punctual from now on....:):)
brother tayeb i like your stance on this issue Alhumdulillah ,i hate apologetic muslims. who always think it is their fault if the police failed to catch the real criminal behind the crimes. and i mean REAL not muslims, cos these are two totlaly different things.
may Allah guide us all to the truth ,make islam prevail the lands Ameen.
wassalam
lubna
As-Salamu-Alaikum Akhi !
Wa-alaikum-as-salaam:
The original post did not seem to indicate the subtle differences I have pointed out.
It said right at the beginning:
"When one has good reason to believe that particular Muslims are engaged in activities clearly harmful to the public interest—such as terrorism or other un-Islamic modes of subversion—it is one’s religious obligation to either stop them when that is likely to be effective, or to report them to the authorities without hesitation."
It doesn't say regardless of religion. It targets Muslims, obviously because the message is for Muslims. It says un-Islamic modes of subversion. What's this subversion thing?
The reason the article does not talk about individuals from all faiths is because the questioner himself was specifically asking about Muslim extremists. The question was: "Would it be ‘giving up on a Muslim’s rights’ to inform the police?"
Many Muslims in today's world are confused about this issue. If they discover that their Muslim brother/sister is involved in extremist activities, they may make the wrong decision of not informing the police simply because they might wrongly conclude that doing such a thing would be "abandoning one's Muslim brother/sister". Infact, the scholar was pointing out that it is one's religious duty to inform the police about any such plots.
I am certain that a number of Muslims that are kidnapped around the World and taken to Egypt and elsewhere to be tortured are denounced by bounty hunters and not only but nevertheless fellow Muslims. A number of Palestinian leaders that have been murdered by the Israelis have been sold out by fellow Muslims.
Now there is a difference between falsely accusing one's Muslim brother/sister of a crime he/she hasn't committed and handing them over to the law for breaking the law or planning to do so. The article does not advocate indulging in false accusations, but in fighting crime and terrorism. Muslims involved in such activites are bringing a very bad name to Islam, and the scholars are well-aware of this and that is why the scholars are pointing out that any Muslim who gets invovled in such activities is going against the teachings of Islam, and those who deliberately choose not to report such individuals (in spite of knowing the Islamic ruling on the matter), are also going against the teachings of Islam.
On kidnappings of Muslims check the following link on 60-minute program by CBS News:
http://kutv.com/topstories/topstories_story_205201451.html
I am aware of Muslims being kidnapped and then sent to countries like Syria and Egypt so that they may be tortured. Of'course this is illegal.
But what has this got to do with preventing an extremist plot?
To say that: "I don't know what will happen to my Muslim brother once I report him to the police, so I choose not to do so" is hardly the right attitude, considering that this individual is about to take innocent lives.
1. You would be running away from your religious duty.
2. These individuals are going against the teachings of Islam by planning to take innocent lives or by already having taken them.
3. What do you think would happen to any such individuals (those who take innocent lives) in an Islamic state (I mean by "Islamic state" a land where the Shariah is applied)? They would probably be executed (in accordance with the Shariah) for having taken innocent lives.
It is important to send a message to extremists and terrorists, irrespective of their religion, that their actions are wrong and that there will be consequences for them to face if they break the law.
With regards to Muslim extremists/terrorists in particular, it is important to let them know that they cannot expect their Muslim brothers and sisters to help them go against the teachings of Islam.
That's why I am personally against witch-hunting. I feel we need to educate our fellow Muslims to be careful in not causing harm to their own brethren just because they have suspicion. If the British police can't fight home grown terrorism in a population of 1,6 million Muslims, what are the British doing in Iraq with a population of 26 million, that are clearly hostile towards them?
1. It is no longer a matter of what you and I think on the issue akhi, but a matter of what Islam orders us to do. Our duty is to submit to Allah. The scholar has made it very clear what our duty in such matters is.
2. Suspicion is one thing akhi, and certainty quite another. It is very important to educate our brethren in Islam that it is their religious obligation to report any extremists/terrorists if they possess knowledge on any such individuals (possessing knowledge is far from mere suspicion).
Wassalam,
Asif.
Assalamoalykum
Wa Alaykum As Salaam !
brother tayeb i like your stance on this issue Alhumdulillah ,i hate apologetic muslims. who always think it is their fault if the police failed to catch the real criminal behind the crimes. and i mean REAL not muslims, cos these are two totlaly different things.
I'm sure you didn't mean by "i hate apologetic muslims", that you hate the author of the article that was posted. :)
For the author is a scholar and student of knowledge, Masha'Allah, trying to guide the Muslim Ummah on complex matters related to today's trouble-some world.
may Allah guide us all to the truth ,make islam prevail the lands.
Ameen.
wassalam
lubna
Wa Alaykum As Salaam,
Asif.
Wa-alaikum-as-salaam akhi Asif:
I'm going to lock this thread. I think we have a consensus that one cannot make acussations unless he/she has hard evidence. And to uphold ideas or views that are deemed to be extremist isn't the same thing as planting bombs.
I have always been against shutting the mouths of Muslims that advocate jihadist views or deemed to be extremist. The ideas have to be debated and of course it is our duty to explain that it's totally forbidden to harm innocent civilians.
Ma'a-salaama,
vBulletin® v3.6.7, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.