View Full Version : Turkey
Netcurtains3
02-10-2005, 15:19
Are you in favour or against Turkey joining the EU and why?
What are your views?
My views are that I am in favour if Turkey can prove (over 10-12 period) that it can cope with European Human Rights legislation, people can openly promote: Islam, christianity, hinduism, athiesism in the street without being attacked. Homosexuals have rights. PEople can convert from Islam to any other faith or non-faith without trouble. Minorities (eg Kurds etc) can have rights to local parliaments if they so wish (aka Scotland and Wales).
Net
Dear Netcurtains:
My view is that Turkey's place is within the Islamic world and this old Ataturk's vision of being european is an utopia of secularists.
The mask is off that EC is for christian nations, as Austria and others have shown. Some EC nations don't have the courage of Austria, but they agree with them.
You might like to know that 78% of Sky News viewers say that Turkey ought not belong to EC. These are brits like yourself, thinking like you.
I hope Turks understand that they are Muslims and they are unwelcome in EC.
Soon after they realise they can never be members of EC.
they ought to stop being cronies of West, abandon Nato, close down American bases, and break ties with Israel.
Ma'a-salaama,
Netcurtains3
02-10-2005, 21:52
It certainly will be an interesting time to see what Europe will think and what Turkey will think.
Apparently Turks used to be 75% in favour of the EU, now its down to 60% and falling.
In a sense bringing countries like Turkey into the EU fold is what the founding fathers of the EU wanted. The whole, original idea of the EU was to bring old enemies together for each others benefit - to make the world a safer place.
If you read the story about Bulent Ersoy, one gets the impression that Turkey isn't so different to some German places (he/she singing the tradional call to prayer) - The world is not how it once was - thats' for sure!
http://www.answers.com/topic/bulent-ersoy
Net
tbahrain
03-10-2005, 10:59
Totally agreed, bro Tayeb. The Turks should realise that they would not be allowed to change the Europeans "way of life".
It certainly will be an interesting time to see what Europe will think and what Turkey will think.
Apparently Turks used to be 75% in favour of the EU, now its down to 60% and falling.
In a sense bringing countries like Turkey into the EU fold is what the founding fathers of the EU wanted. The whole, original idea of the EU was to bring old enemies together for each others benefit - to make the world a safer place.
If you read the story about Bulent Ersoy, one gets the impression that Turkey isn't so different to some German places (he/she singing the tradional call to prayer) - The world is not how it once was - thats' for sure!
http://www.answers.com/topic/bulent-ersoy
Net
Dear Netcurtains:
I would see some sense in what you're saying if in future an unified Bosnia, with majority Muslim population becomes part of EC, or for that matter Albania with Kosovo annexed to her, would join EC. Now for Turkey that has a bit of territory in Europe and most of it is Asia Minor is a total nonsense.
Besides it's more than clear that EC is a christian club of countries. There may be a sizeable muslim population in EC, but that doesn't constitute in any sense a threat to christian character of EC.
Wasn't already envisaged that EC constitution would say that the official religion of an united EC would be christian? It nearly became part of constitution.
As a BBC anchor said yesterday most of population of EC, probably 80% doesn't not want 73 million muslims of Turkey to join it and the political parties desguise their opposition to turkish membership with other arguments, when in fact they don't want Turkey.
As I said the next logical step of Turkey would be to withdaw from NATO, closedown American bases, break diplomatic and economic ties with Israel, and return to the fold of Islam.
Turks are a proud people and despite their "secularism" they may have some dignity left. I hope with the bleeding nose they get from EC today, or latest tomorrow, they learn they have no place in EC. They must abandon this wrong wishful thinking of becoming europeans and wake up to the reality they are unwelcome.
Ma'a-salaama,
Netcurtains3
03-10-2005, 17:19
Hi Tayeb,
talking of "bleeding nose" and "proud nation" is a touch xenophobic. The UK was turned down by the EU for 25 years. Ted Heath had to practically bend over backwards to get the UK in. It wasn't until Thatcher came along that we managed to even get part of our money back. My view is the EU probably wants Turkey because it has a hard working and young population who want to be Western European. The rest of Europe is ageing. Good Luck to them. My only concern is that the Turkish population will be bigger then Germany (currently the biggest nation) and thus the centre of gravity of the EU will move east. Not sure that is good for the UK.
On the whole I am anti the EU. Always was, probably always will be.
John
Hi Tayeb,
talking of "bleeding nose" and "proud nation" is a touch xenophobic. The UK was turned down by the EU for 25 years. Ted Heath had to practically bend over backwards to get the UK in. It wasn't until Thatcher came along that we managed to even get part of our money back. My view is the EU probably wants Turkey because it has a hard working and young population who want to be Western European. The rest of Europe is ageing. Good Luck to them. My only concern is that the Turkish population will be bigger then Germany (currently the biggest nation) and thus the centre of gravity of the EU will move east. Not sure that is good for the UK.
On the whole I am anti the EU. Always was, probably always will be.
John
Dear John:
Not all nothing xenophobic! And who's not proud of his country?
Britain didn't join EC (at that time EEC) in the first place because of common agriculture policy that was a kind of "tribute" to France by "defeated" Germany. Germany had accepted CAP hoping to obtain an unity that Hitler and before him Napoleon cherished.
The fact is that Turkey is waiting for 42 years and has humiliated herself a lot more than UK did. De Gaulle didn't trust brits because they would fight european unity from within, as they have done so far by staying out like with common currency.
Ma'a-salaama,
Netcurtains3
03-10-2005, 22:05
If my mum could cope with understanding this gobbly-de-gook when she was about 10 I'm sure she can deal with Turkish:
As she writes (p.85)
"Lekhayim, To Life. That's what they mean. I asked Morry Isaacs to get them, put them on. he knows everybody. "Whats is this" he asks me. "Am I a shtik goy to be writing Yiddish to a Catholic girl?" Why you making a tzimmis?" I ask him. "Its for my shabbas goy".
"
Yep you can buy my mum's biography, its out today:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0750939966/qid=1128369425/sr=8-7/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i7_xgl/202-8728779-4994234
Go on buy a copy and I'll talk you though the stories. Including lice in hair and magots on the walls of houses. This was 1930s London.
Dear Netcurtains:
Turks seem to have swallowed any sense of dingity and have accepted a long 10 year's trail to join EC.
The course they have accepted are of negotiations and it doesn't mean that Turkey will become EC member at the end.
Thinking in terms of realpolitik it seems Turkey will try to get as many trade concessions meanwhile.
Ma'a-salaama,
Dear John,
its seems like you are promoting your mom's book, is she a public figure in UK??
Netcurtains3
05-10-2005, 18:08
lol,
no.
But authors get about £1.5 per copy sold.
And 1920s 1930s London is a very interesting bit of history.
So yes, I would like my mums book to do well,
She is 89.
Net.
WOW, only 1.5 pounds, ummm well i wish her luck.
Netcurtains3
05-10-2005, 22:01
I'm not sure it is £1.5
If the book costs retail £9 I think about £4.5 (50%) goes to the retailer.
Then the publisher (who takes the risk) probably gets the bulk of the remainder - could be £4. So the writer might only get 50p per copy.
I think most writers don't do it for the money, its more for an "acheivement" . However, of course, money does play a significant part. Most people who write probably do have a day-dream that one day they will write a book that will sell thousands of copies in ONE YEAR.
Net.
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