Apparently the Devil was in the UN yesterday....

[macmuslim]

Chavez tells UN Bush is 'devil'

Hugo Chavez used his speech to lash at US influence


Speech Extract
Venezuela's leader Hugo Chavez has called US President George W Bush "the devil" in a speech at the United Nations General Assembly.
"The devil came here yesterday," he said, referring to Mr Bush's speech on Tuesday. "It still smells of sulphur today," he added.

US State Department spokesman Tom Casey said it was disappointing to see a head of state speak in such a way.

Mr Chavez went on to criticise the UN system, which he said was "worthless".

The left-wing Venezuelan leader - allied to Cuba's Fidel Castro and with growing ties to fellow oil-producer Iran - has long had tense relations with the US.

UN 'worthless'

On Tuesday, Mr Bush had defended his policies on the Middle East and said democracy was gaining ground as terrorists were marginalised.

The UN system born after World War II collapsed. It's worthless

Hugo Chavez
Venezuelan President


UN session at a glance

Mr Chavez, who brandished a copy of American leftist writer Noam Chomsky's Hegemony or Survival: America's Quest for Global Dominance, said Mr Bush promoted "a false democracy of the elite" and a "democracy of bombs".

"He came here talking as if he were the owner of the world," the Venezuelan leader said.

He called for drastic reform of the UN to reduce what he called US influence.

The UN in its current form "doesn't work", he said.

"I don't think anybody in this room could defend the system," the Venezuelan leader added.


The UN General Assembly is holding its 61st session

"Let's be honest. The UN system born after World War II collapsed. It's worthless."

Mr Chavez's criticism of the UN echoed Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's speech to the assembly late on Tuesday, BBC diplomatic correspondent Bridget Kendall reports from New York.

"As long as the UN Security Council is unable to act on behalf of the entire international community in a transparent, just and democratic manner, it will neither be legitimate nor effective," Mr Ahmadinejad said in a speech delivered a few hours after Mr Bush's appearance.

[Dr Qaisar]

Salaam.

It was really fantastic to watch Pres. Hugo Chavez's UN address lambasting 'the devil'. I, like the rest of the sitting UN delegates, had good laugh. He is a pro. and a class act and you have to admire his guts.

Here's the video link..........


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/3681938.stm


Another comment by President Ahmedinejad.......

"The question needs to be asked: if the governments of the United States, or the United Kingdom - who are permanent members of the Security Council - commit aggression, occupation and violation of international law, which of the organs of the UN can hold them to account?"


Yesterday, A British corporal, Donald Payne, became the first soldier to admit to a war crime after pleading guilty to inhumanely treating Iraqi civilians at a court martial yesterday. He was charged under International Criminal Court Act which was enacted by the British govt. to circumvent the International Court of Justice in the the Hague so that no British soldier or officer would be tried for any war-crimes, genocide, crimes against humanity etc. at the Hague.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2368023.html


The Americans have enacted similar immunity laws to prevent their soldiers from being hauled up for any war-crimes!! So while it is ok for people like former Yugoslav president Milosevic to be tried at the Hague, the British & Americans are beyond the reach of any International Law, Treaties, the Geneva Convention etc. That is the whole point of the esteemed Iranian President Ahmedinejad and also Hugo Chavez when he blasted the present UN dispensation as "worthless".



Wa-salaam,
Dr.Qaisar

[wildlifer]

Salaam.

It was really fantastic to watch Pres. Hugo Chavez's UN address lambasting 'the devil'. I, like the rest of the sitting UN delegates, had good laugh. He is a pro. and a class act and you have to admire his guts.

Here's the video link..........


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/help/3681938.stm


Another comment by President Ahmedinejad.......

"The question needs to be asked: if the governments of the United States, or the United Kingdom - who are permanent members of the Security Council - commit aggression, occupation and violation of international law, which of the organs of the UN can hold them to account?"


Yesterday, A British corporal, Donald Payne, became the first soldier to admit to a war crime after pleading guilty to inhumanely treating Iraqi civilians at a court martial yesterday. He was charged under International Criminal Court Act which was enacted by the British govt. to circumvent the International Court of Justice in the the Hague so that no British soldier or officer would be tried for any war-crimes, genocide, crimes against humanity etc. at the Hague.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2368023.html


The Americans have enacted similar immunity laws to prevent their soldiers from being hauled up for any war-crimes!! So while it is ok for people like former Yugoslav president Milosevic to be tried at the Hague, the British & Americans are beyond the reach of any International Law, Treaties, the Geneva Convention etc. That is the whole point of the esteemed Iranian President Ahmedinejad and also Hugo Chavez when he blasted the present UN dispensation as "worthless".



Wa-salaam,
Dr.Qaisar


I agree the UN is corupt and worthless and should be disbanded and evicted from US shores.

Soldiers fighting the terrorists should not be taking prisoners to be accused of "abusing" later, but should treat them as their comrades have been treated and lop off their heads where they find them.

[Dr Qaisar]

Greetings.


Soldiers fighting the terrorists should not be taking prisoners to be accused of "abusing" later, but should treat them as their comrades have been treated and lop off their heads where they find them.


I don't know what you mean by "terrorists" above; perhaps, you did not read the above link. The people picked up by the British soldiers were innocent civilians from a hotel in Basra........ "Mr Musa, 26, who had been arrested with eight other Iraqis after a raid on a hotel in Basra, was beaten more than most of the others". These civilians were deliberately beaten severely resulting in their deaths much like the torture sustained on prisoners of Abu Gharaib by the Americans. One of the victims of Abu Gharib was a well-known Iraqi writer who is now hiring lawyers and trying to file a legal suit at the ICJ in the Hague. May God help him in succeeding & bringing the criminals to justice.

In another well-documented case where there is TV & video evidence against British soldiers, a 10 or 14 year old Iraqi boy was drowned & killed by British soldiers simply because he threw stones at them in a protest demonstration!!! The court martial continues in the UK.

The genocide & war-crimes against innocent Iraqis & Afghans still continues........ If anything, capital punishment should be meted out to these criminals by independent courts of law or an International Tribunal like the Nuremberg trials.


Dr.Qaisar

[wildlifer]

Greetings.




I don't know what you mean by "terrorists" above; perhaps, you did not read the above link. The people picked up by the British soldiers were innocent civilians from a hotel in Basra........ "Mr Musa, 26, who had been arrested with eight other Iraqis after a raid on a hotel in Basra, was beaten more than most of the others". These civilians were deliberately beaten severely resulting in their deaths much like the torture sustained on prisoners of Abu Gharaib by the Americans. One of the victims of Abu Gharib was a well-known Iraqi writer who is now hiring lawyers and trying to file a legal suit at the ICJ in the Hague. May God help him in succeeding & bringing the criminals to justice.

In another well-documented case where there is TV & video evidence against British soldiers, a 10 or 14 year old Iraqi boy was drowned & killed by British soldiers simply because he threw stones at them in a protest demonstration!!! The court martial continues in the UK.

The genocide & war-crimes against innocent Iraqis & Afghans still continues........ If anything, capital punishment should be meted out to these criminals by independent courts of law or an International Tribunal like the Nuremberg trials.


Dr.Qaisar


I missed the part where it was proved they were innocent. Can you point that out?

[Tayeb]

Dear wildlifer,

For you throwing stones at occupying soldiers means becoming a criminal and can be drowned for the "crime"... for you these 10 to 14 year old children are "criminals" correct?

Ma'a-salaama,

[wildlifer]

Dear wildlifer,

For you throwing stones at occupying soldiers means becoming a criminal and can be drowned for the "crime"... for you these 10 to 14 year old children are "criminals" correct?

Ma'a-salaama,


I don't know about you, but I've required stiches after being hit with thrown stones, and a friend in my youth lost an eye. If it was me, I would return fire.

But these alleged children have nothing to do with the topic of terrorists and are a diversion.

[Dr Qaisar]

Greetings.

I don't know about you, but I've required stiches after being hit with thrown stones, and a friend in my youth lost an eye. If it was me, I would return fire.



If you are an American, I would understand your fascination with guns and your trigger-happen nature. May I ask, if the person(s) who attacked you or your 'friend in youth who lost an eye' "after being hit with stones", were they by any chance charged with TERRORISM by the police/authorities?? And pray, why didn't you return fire?? Surely, you had good enough reason to. After all, you were pelted with stones, not blasted with a "Daisy Cutter"!!

If you are prepared to return fire simply because someone threw stones at you, then surely the people who are being fired at DAILY with machine guns and bombed with tanks, helicopter gunships & planes, surely have more right than you to fight back with guns & RPGs etc. So then you would have no right to call these resistant fighters as 'terrorists'? Because, these fighters would only be fighting in self-defence or to get rid of foreign occupation forces!!


"I missed the part where it was proved they were innocent. Can you point that out?"


Perhaps, you have not heard of the phrase....... "innocent till proved guilty". The civilians were simply rounded up from a hotel and then subjected to merciless beatings till they died; they were not taken to a police station and charged with 'terrorism offences'!! Your whole logic is flawed from the beginning; the civilians don't have to prove their INNOCENCE and they are not the ones ON TRIAL. It's the soldiers who are on tial and facing court martial proceedings, not the dead civilians!!!


But these alleged children have nothing to do with the topic of terrorists and are a diversion.


They are not "alleged children", they ARE children!! The video clip was shown on BBC, Sky news etc. earlier this year where the soldiers were shown to have beaten the child on TV on a street in Iraq (perhaps, Baghdad/Basra) and later his dead body was found in a ditch drowned next day. The concerned soldier has in fact admitted to his crime of drowning the child, albeit, not deliberately!! He said he ONLY wanted to teach the kid a lesson for throwing stones at the British soldiers, so he forced the child's head down into a stream or canal.

One of the most basic definitions of 'terrorism' is causing ...... "fear, terror, damage, death, destruction to life and/or property of innocent civilians". Indeed, killing of children and civilians like in the above-mentioned incidents has everything to do with the topic of terrorists & terrorism.......... STATE-SPONSORED Terrorism and the guilty soldiers or miltary officers should be punished to the full extent of International Law including the politicians who sent the illegal military forces in the first place.

I hope this will enable you to rethink your views........ if you can wield a gun, so can others and sooner or later, you maybe a victim of a bullet fired by another trigger-happen person in a lawless and gun-society who thought he/she fired first in self-defence at you. The point being guns and wars have never solved any disputes, personal or international, in history; they have only worsened the situation.

Finally, this thread was about the "presence of the devil in the UN" and not about terrorism as such; it was you who diverted from the original topic by your "diversionary" statement......... "Soldiers fighting the terrorists should not be taking prisoners to be accused of "abusing" later, but should treat them as their comrades have been treated and lop off their heads where they find them".


Dr.Qaisar

[wildlifer]

Greetings.




If you are an American, I would understand your fascination with guns and your trigger-happen nature. May I ask, if the person(s) who attacked you or your 'friend in youth who lost an eye' "after being hit with stones", were they by any chance charged with TERRORISM by the police/authorities?? And pray, why didn't you return fire?? Surely, you had good enough reason to. After all, you were pelted with stones, not blasted with a "Daisy Cutter"!!

We were not "armed" at the time. But we did hunt them down and ambush them later with our BB guns and ran them out of our territory.

If you are prepared to return fire simply because someone threw stones at you, then surely the people who are being fired at DAILY with machine guns and bombed with tanks, helicopter gunships & planes, surely have more right than you to fight back with guns & RPGs etc. So then you would have no right to call these resistant fighters as 'terrorists'? Because, these fighters would only be fighting in self-defence or to get rid of foreign occupation forces!!

Funny, they've killed more un-armed Iraqis than coalition forces.





Perhaps, you have not heard of the phrase....... "innocent till proved guilty". The civilians were simply rounded up from a hotel and then subjected to merciless beatings till they died; they were not taken to a police station and charged with 'terrorism offences'!! Your whole logic is flawed from the beginning; the civilians don't have to prove their INNOCENCE and they are not the ones ON TRIAL. It's the soldiers who are on tial and facing court martial proceedings, not the dead civilians!!!

"Innocent until proved guilty" is an assumption of innocence in a court, not a fact in a war zone.
Captured coalition forces are immediately tortured and beheaded. But while we expect better behavior out of coalition forces, their retalitory actions don't surprise me. They will pay for their crimes, while the murderers of unarmed, captured coalition forces are heralded as "heros."



One of the most basic definitions of 'terrorism' is causing ...... "fear, terror, damage, death, destruction to life and/or property of innocent civilians". Indeed, killing of children and civilians like in the above-mentioned incidents has everything to do with the topic of terrorists & terrorism.......... STATE-SPONSORED Terrorism and the guilty soldiers or miltary officers should be punished to the full extent of International Law including the politicians who sent the illegal military forces in the first place.

And as all the reports show, it is your "resistance" fighters who are causing all the terror by targeting and killing armed and unarmed Iraqis - exponentially more than in the "crimes" commited by coalition forces.

I hope this will enable you to rethink your views........ if you can wield a gun, so can others and sooner or later, you maybe a victim of a bullet fired by another trigger-happen person in a lawless and gun-society who thought he/she fired first in self-defence at you. The point being guns and wars have never solved any disputes, personal or international, in history; they have only worsened the situation.

And, as Tayeb has proven to me in this forum, guns are the only way to settle this "dispute." I came here against the war in Iraq, and naively believed a "moderate" and reasonable Islam actually existed, but was soon dissuaded of those notions. The free world will not willingly submit to dimmitude. The rest of the west will not buy into Al-taqiyya and be "Islamified," as we see in Europe with resident Muslims calling for a right to Sharia Law. (There are already calls to evict Muslims who do not assimilate from the US) So if Islam is ever to rule the world, it'll be one comprised of a radioactive wasteland.
911 ended the days of "political correctness."

Finally, this thread was about the "presence of the devil in the UN" and not about terrorism as such; it was you who diverted from the original topic by your "diversionary" statement......... "Soldiers fighting the terrorists should not be taking prisoners to be accused of "abusing" later, but should treat them as their comrades have been treated and lop off their heads where they find them".


Dr.Qaisar

Well actually, in your second post you broached the topic.

[Tayeb]

And, as Tayeb has proven to me in this forum, guns are the only way to settle this "dispute." I came here against the war in Iraq, and naively believed a "moderate" and reasonable Islam actually existed, but was soon dissuaded of those notions. The free world will not willingly submit to dimmitude. The rest of the west will not buy into Al-taqiyya and be "Islamified," as we see in Europe with resident Muslims calling for a right to Sharia Law. (There are already calls to evict Muslims who do not assimilate from the US) So if Islam is ever to rule the world, it'll be one comprised of a radioactive wasteland. 911 ended the days of "political correctness."


Dear wildlifer,

It shows your ignorance of Islam. Unlike you have read in neo-con and pro-zionist sites taqiyya isn't a sunni muslim concept. It was invented by shias when they suffered oppression. Nobody here practises taqiyya.

Dissimulation and hidden ideas are practised by neo-cons pro-zionists and zionists as we have seen time and again. At least your mask is off and you have shown your true face.

Warmongers and those that support their ideas have exactly your views. Thanks for revealing your true ideas.

Ma'a-salaama,