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sulphur
28-09-2006, 00:10
The Pope's Evil Legend
Mohammed's Sword
By URI AVNERY


Since the days when Roman Emperors threw Christians to the lions, the relations between the emperors and the heads of the church have undergone many changes.
Constantine the Great, who became Emperor in the year 306--exactly 1700 years ago--encouraged the practice of Christianity in the empire, which included Palestine. Centuries later, the church split into an Eastern (Orthodox) and a Western (Catholic) part. In the West, the Bishop of Rome, who acquired the title of Pope, demanded that the Emperor accept his superiority.
The struggle between the Emperors and the Popes played a central role in European history and divided the peoples. It knew ups and downs. Some Emperors dismissed or expelled a Pope, some Popes dismissed or excommunicated an Emperor. One of the Emperors, Henry IV, "walked to Canossa", standing for three days barefoot in the snow in front of the Pope's castle, until the Pope deigned to annul his excommunication.
But there were times when Emperors and Popes lived in peace with each other. We are witnessing such a period today. Between the present Pope, Benedict XVI, and the present Emperor, George Bush II, there exists a wonderful harmony. Last week's speech by the Pope, which aroused a world-wide storm, went well with Bush's crusade against "Islamofascism", in the context of the "Clash of Civilizations".
* * *
IN HIS lecture at a German university, the 265th Pope described what he sees as a huge difference between Christianity and Islam: while Christianity is based on reason, Islam denies it. While Christians see the logic of God's actions, Muslims deny that there is any such logic in the actions of Allah.
As a Jewish atheist, I do not intend to enter the fray of this debate. It is much beyond my humble abilities to understand the logic of the Pope. But I cannot overlook one passage, which concerns me too, as an Israeli living near the fault-line of this "war of civilizations".
In order to prove the lack of reason in Islam, the Pope asserts that the prophet Muhammad ordered his followers to spread their religion by the sword. According to the Pope, that is unreasonable, because faith is born of the soul, not of the body. How can the sword influence the soul?
To support his case, the Pope quoted--of all people--a Byzantine Emperor, who belonged, of course, to the competing Eastern Church. At the end of the 14th century, the Emperor Manuel II Palaeologus told of a debate he had--or so he said (its occurrence is in doubt)--with an unnamed Persian Muslim scholar. In the heat of the argument, the Emperor (according to himself) flung the following words at his adversary:
"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached".
These words give rise to three questions:
(a) Why did the Emperor say them?
(b) Are they true?
(c) Why did the present Pope quote them?
* * *
WHEN MANUEL II wrote his treatise, he was the head of a dying empire. He assumed power in 1391, when only a few provinces of the once illustrious empire remained. These, too, were already under Turkish threat.
At that point in time, the Ottoman Turks had reached the banks of the Danube. They had conquered Bulgaria and the north of Greece, and had twice defeated relieving armies sent by Europe to save the Eastern Empire. In 1453, only a few years after Manuel's death, his capital, Constantinople (the present Istanbul) fell to the Turks, putting an end to the Empire that had lasted for more than a thousand years.
During his reign, Manuel made the rounds of the capitals of Europe in an attempt to drum up support. He promised to reunite the church. There is no doubt that he wrote his religious treatise in order to incite the Christian countries against the Turks and convince them to start a new crusade. The aim was practical, theology was serving politics.
In this sense, the quote serves exactly the requirements of the present Emperor, George Bush II. He, too, wants to unite the Christian world against the mainly Muslim "Axis of Evil". Moreover, the Turks are again knocking on the doors of Europe, this time peacefully. It is well known that the Pope supports the forces that object to the entry of Turkey into the European Union.
* * *
IS THERE any truth in Manuel's argument?
The pope himself threw in a word of caution. As a serious and renowned theologian, he could not afford to falsify written texts. Therefore, he admitted that the Qur'an specifically forbade the spreading of the faith by force. He quoted the second Sura, verse 256 (strangely fallible, for a pope, he meant verse 257) which says: "There must be no coercion in matters of faith".
How can one ignore such an unequivocal statement? The Pope simply argues that this commandment was laid down by the prophet when he was at the beginning of his career, still weak and powerless, but that later on he ordered the use of the sword in the service of the faith. Such an order does not exist in the Qur'an. True, Muhammad called for the use of the sword in his war against opposing tribes--Christian, Jewish and others--in Arabia, when he was building his state. But that was a political act, not a religious one; basically a fight for territory, not for the spreading of the faith.
Jesus said: "You will recognize them by their fruits." The treatment of other religions by Islam must be judged by a simple test: How did the Muslim rulers behave for more than a thousand years, when they had the power to "spread the faith by the sword"?
Well, they just did not.
For many centuries, the Muslims ruled Greece. Did the Greeks become Muslims? Did anyone even try to Islamize them? On the contrary, Christian Greeks held the highest positions in the Ottoman administration. The Bulgarians, Serbs, Romanians, Hungarians and other European nations lived at one time or another under Ottoman rule and clung to their Christian faith. Nobody compelled them to become Muslims and all of them remained devoutly Christian.
True, the Albanians did convert to Islam, and so did the Bosniaks. But nobody argues that they did this under duress. They adopted Islam in order to become favorites of the government and enjoy the fruits.
In 1099, the Crusaders conquered Jerusalem and massacred its Muslim and Jewish inhabitants indiscriminately, in the name of the gentle Jesus. At that time, 400 years into the occupation of Palestine by the Muslims, Christians were still the majority in the country. Throughout this long period, no effort was made to impose Islam on them. Only after the expulsion of the Crusaders from the country, did the majority of the inhabitants start to adopt the Arabic language and the Muslim faith--and they were the forefathers of most of today's Palestinians.
* * *
THERE IS no evidence whatsoever of any attempt to impose Islam on the Jews. As is well known, under Muslim rule the Jews of Spain enjoyed a bloom the like of which the Jews did not enjoy anywhere else until almost our time. Poets like Yehuda Halevy wrote in Arabic, as did the great Maimonides. In Muslim Spain, Jews were ministers, poets, scientists. In Muslim Toledo, Christian, Jewish and Muslim scholars worked together and translated the ancient Greek philosophical and scientific texts. That was, indeed, the Golden Age. How would this have been possible, had the Prophet decreed the "spreading of the faith by the sword"?
What happened afterwards is even more telling. When the Catholics re-conquered Spain from the Muslims, they instituted a reign of religious terror. The Jews and the Muslims were presented with a cruel choice: to become Christians, to be massacred or to leave. And where did the hundreds of thousand of Jews, who refused to abandon their faith, escape? Almost all of them were received with open arms in the Muslim countries. The Sephardi ("Spanish") Jews settled all over the Muslim world, from Morocco in the west to Iraq in the east, from Bulgaria (then part of the Ottoman Empire) in the north to Sudan in the south. Nowhere were they persecuted. They knew nothing like the tortures of the Inquisition, the flames of the auto-da-fe, the pogroms, the terrible mass-expulsions that took place in almost all Christian countries, up to the Holocaust.
WHY? Because Islam expressly prohibited any persecution of the "peoples of the book". In Islamic society, a special place was reserved for Jews and Christians. They did not enjoy completely equal rights, but almost. They had to pay a special poll-tax, but were exempted from military service--a trade-off that was quite welcome to many Jews. It has been said that Muslim rulers frowned upon any attempt to convert Jews to Islam even by gentle persuasion--because it entailed the loss of taxes.
Every honest Jew who knows the history of his people cannot but feel a deep sense of gratitude to Islam, which has protected the Jews for fifty generations, while the Christian world persecuted the Jews and tried many times "by the sword" to get them to abandon their faith.
* * *
THE STORY about "spreading the faith by the sword" is an evil legend, one of the myths that grew up in Europe during the great wars against the Muslims--the reconquista of Spain by the Christians, the Crusades and the repulsion of the Turks, who almost conquered Vienna. I suspect that the German Pope, too, honestly believes in these fables. That means that the leader of the Catholic world, who is a Christian theologian in his own right, did not make the effort to study the history of other religions.
Why did he utter these words in public? And why now?
There is no escape from viewing them against the background of the new Crusade of Bush and his evangelist supporters, with his slogans of "Islamofascism" and the "Global War on Terrorism"--when "terrorism" has become a synonym for Muslims. For Bush's handlers, this is a cynical attempt to justify the domination of the world's oil resources. Not for the first time in history, a religious robe is spread to cover the nakedness of economic interests; not for the first time, a robbers' expedition becomes a Crusade.
The speech of the Pope blends into this effort. Who can foretell the dire consequences?


Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is one of the writers featured in The Other Israel: Voices of Dissent and Refusal. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's hot new book The Politics of Anti-Semitism.

jakari
04-10-2006, 16:08
I am glad to read this article. I was thinking as lot of what was said was said out of context so I went and looked the speech up and for the life of me I could not figure out why the Pope would make such a hateful statement.
If Islam has been spread by the tip of a sward, then Christianity has been spread by the pits of torture and deceit.

If we look at the first we see that we must be more selective in all the trees that bear the fruit of religion because there are some trees that are in unstable soil and others trees that just bear bad fruit because the fertilizer or the farmer was not taking care of the trees properly.

This is true of all religions just not one, and a lot of individuals seem to confuse politics and religion. Just because a nation is of a certain faith one not mean all of its political actions are governed by that faith, despite the fact that the laws of the land should reflect the teachings of its moral core and that is the faiths of the nations.

macmuslim
04-10-2006, 23:45
Assalamu alaikum

Excellent article Sulphur!
Some serious food for thought.
With regard to the Emperor Manuel of Byzantium, do you think that his claim to want reunite the churches fall in the realms of Pope Benedict's talk? ie a hand held out toward the evangelicals of Bush et al?

Netcurtains3
08-10-2006, 10:43
Truely religious people can't help but note how the Amish religion has reacted to the killings in their community (by raising money for the family of the killer, and offering prayers and love towards the killer) and some muslim reactions to the popes speach (kill the pope , shoot nuns dead, blah blah blah nonsense).

I am tempted towards the Amish and repelled yet further from islam. If I had a scale of what I concider good and what I concider evil, well you know where I would put the Amish reaction. I'll leave the rest to your intelligence.

Net.

Tayeb
08-10-2006, 18:33
Dear John,

Long time since I last saw you here. I hope all is well with you and your family.

I don't see the logic in your sweeping statement. This is a sect not really representative of christianity. In fact they reject the modern world unlike catholic christians like yourself and the vast majority of christians.

Ma'a-salaama,

Franky
09-10-2006, 19:31
no offence john but regarding the amish, are you after the truth or are you after what sounds good to bambi? and with regard to the reaction of some muslims, you must remember that this is due to the light in which the prophet muhammad (saw) is seen by all muslims and the immense magnitude of esteem in which he is held. taking this into consideration, when he (and islam) is insulted in a blatantly out of context and unjust manner by such a high profile figure such as the leader of the catholic church and then half the world unites to defend his aggresive and downright false remarks, this gives birth to a situation where emotions can often be hard to keep in check.

best regards, franky

Netcurtains3
09-10-2006, 21:23
Frankly,
The problem with your response is that it does not fit the facts.

The facts are that Islam is particularly strong in male dominated macho
societies in which percieved insults often lead to violence. Tribes, guns,
and all the associated baggage.

I Doubt very much if you will see any regular church goers standing outside mosques and saying kill the ayatollahs...The thought is almost laughable!

Look at some of the insults that come Britians way with the current "veil" argument. You hear: "why should we integrate with drunken yobbish Britian?" This is of course an insult to non-muslim Britians (see prison statistics).

I am happy that women wear anything they want in the street but obviously some places are less sensible for veils eg Restuarants (lol) and inside shops (shop lifting). Filling up cars (they need to see your face - security - theft) or on tubes (bit scary)....but walking around the street is fine....why not - its the same with sun-glasses, they are ok to wear but need a bit of common sense when to take them off. Its not rocket science.

John

Franky
10-10-2006, 19:35
hi john, i'd just like to reply to some of your comments.

Frankly,
The problem with your response is that it does not fit the facts.

The facts are that Islam is particularly strong in male dominated macho
societies in which percieved insults often lead to violence. Tribes, guns,
and all the associated baggage.this is just a lack of education and ignorance of islam that leads to people behaving like this in many developing muslim nations. i think you'll find a similar pattern in the majority of developing countries throughout the world. it has nothing to with religion but one thing i'd like to point out regarding perceived islamic machoism and sexism.... when the prophet muhammad (saw) introduced rights for women that never existed before (e.g. right of inheritance), the christian church in europe was debating as to whether a woman should be classified as a human or an animal.


I Doubt very much if you will see any regular church goers standing outside mosques and saying kill the ayatollahs...The thought is almost laughable! they have no reason to. also, i've already explained why some muslims let their emotions get the better of them. people's aggresive instincts come to the fore when they are victimised. this is a natural human reaction. some can control it, some can't but like i said, church goers have never been provoked in the way muslims are being provoked day by day by the actions of western governments, religious leaders (i.e. the pope) and mainstream media. i'm sure you'll agree that these are things that church goers don't have to live with. while i don't necessarily condone the actions of muslims that allow their emotions to get the better of them, i'm sure you'll agree that there are mitigating circumstances that lead to their actions.


Look at some of the insults that come Britians way with the current "veil" argument. You hear: "why should we integrate with drunken yobbish Britian?" This is of course an insult to non-muslim Britians (see prison statistics).

I am happy that women wear anything they want in the street but obviously some places are less sensible for veils eg Restuarants (lol) and inside shops (shop lifting). Filling up cars (they need to see your face - security - theft) or on tubes (bit scary)....but walking around the street is fine....why not - its the same with sun-glasses, they are ok to wear but need a bit of common sense when to take them off. Its not rocket science.how do you define integration? if muslims don't go down their local and throw up on the way home, does that mean that they haven't integrated? if muslim women don't wear clothing that islam forbids (e.g. short skirts), does that mean that they haven't integrated. the majority of western culture revolves around alcohol, music, free mixing of men and women and other things that islam forbids. muslims stay away from these things and therefore are perceived by the indigenous population to reject integration and many westerners find this offensive. they think that muslims are making a deliberate effort to reject their way of life. their taking offence at this is purely down to their ignorance of the rulings of islam. muslims only reject those things that their religion does not allow them to partake in. islam doesn't forbid western technology such as mobile phones...... guess what? nearly all muslims have a mobile phone. heck, even my 12 year old son has one. i could carry on but i'm sure you get the gist of what i'm saying. finally, just to prove that it's nothing personal against westerners and their way of life, i'd like you to know that i personally don't integrate with half of my family (i.e. uncles, aunties, cousins) and the reason for this is the one i've already given. their way of life involves free-mixing of men and women, music and other things that islam does not permit. before accusing muslims of not integrating, the western media should dig a bit deeper and report the causes of this non-integration.... but hey, that doesn't sell papers :D!

best regards, franky

Netcurtains3
10-10-2006, 20:21
Frankly,

Recently THREE Catholic priests have been attacked in Turkey. One was shot dead by a Muslim youth shouting "God is great" another knifed and the third attacked and threatend.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5139408.stm

All this happened BEFORE the pope said anything. The pope is due to go to Turkey soon. AFTER the pope spoke a nun was killed and we had demostrations outside Westminster Cathedral in front of children saying "kill the pope". Turkey considers itself pretty western.

On the veil thing I don't think there is anything wrong with wearing veils, hoods, motorbike helmets, scarves in winter or balaclava's over your face.
Just some commonsense is needed. Face veils are (apparently) not part of the religion, so commonsense can prevail (eg don't wear them in shops where security is important - eg clothes shops). Its pretty obvious muslim people do integrate in society - eg the UK Curry restaurant (and associated beer sales). The whole thing is a storm in a tea cup. Why do muslims have to make such a fuss?

Lets remember illegal immigration, shop-lifters and other petty criminals can be of any religion and of any sex. Shop owners, nation states and security staff should be able to identify criminals via photo's if need be. Its not rocket science. The minister was right-ish in what he said as it is provable that some ordinary people (eg Passport checkers) are sometimes afraid to ask muslim women to remove their veil in case it causes offence. There should be no offence to being "asked politely" by security or shop owners or transport officials whether the security is in an airport or in a shop on outside a tube station. Unfortunately it does take a senior person to get this message accross as many people are a bit afraid to accidently offend people. If I was a minister (Jack Straw) I certainly would want a bit of security before someone came up to me in a veil, I can unstand his fear after Iraq war and 7/7....IMHO I sometimes feel some of these people (not all) wear these full veils just to give me the willies (eg a political statement) and for no other reason.

On the "Women's Lib" thing, I think you are confusing the West with ancient ROME.
Celtic law (Irish medieval law books still exist) gave more or less full rights to women.
Its probably not a co-incidence that womens lib developed here (UK) first. For a hint to how ancient Celtic culture thought you can read GALATIANS in the Bible (its only about 5 pages long).

The Galatians were a Celtic people living in Turkey. They spoke celtic right up to 500AD. In this little Celtic letter in the bible it says "there are no men or women in christ, we are all one"....or in modern English, in an ideal Christian society there is no LEGAL difference between the RIGHTS and RESPONSIBILITIES of a man or a woman. These five pages (Galatians) could be the oldest Christian text anywhere - the ground zero of Christendom.

John

Franky
10-10-2006, 20:47
john, i agree with your last post regarding the veil except for the bit at the end. i assure you no muslim woman wears the veil to give you or anyone else the willies. in fact, the majority of them are apprehensive at wearing it due to being stared at in a 'what the heck is that' fashion (especially by young children), but they still wear it because it's an important part of their religion. i could go into why it's an important part of women's islamic clothing but that's another discussion entirely. just know that the native african in the deepest jungles of central africa, who's wife, daughters and sisters run around topless and wear nothing but a fig leaf to cover their private parts, he probably sees western women as being oppressed and finds it utterly revolting that they should be forced to wear so many layers of clothing. i bet he'd probably get the willies if he ever came across one :D.

with regard to the christian priests that were attacked and the nun that was shot dead without reason, i can assure you that islam totally forbids this and whoever carried out these attacks, certainly did not do so in the name of islam. rather, those attacks were carried out by people totally ignorant of the teachings of islam or in other words..... madmen. by the way, i don't see how these attacks are linked to our discussion in any way. the victimisation that the muslims feel due to the grand scale and high profile actions/words of the western governments, religious leaders and western media is totally different to a few isolated attacks on christians by some misguided madmen. the two cannot be compared.

best regards, franky

PS. my name doesn't have the letter 'L' in it :).

Netcurtains3
10-10-2006, 23:09
Franky,
You said:
"
the victimisation that the muslims feel due to the grand scale and high profile actions/words of the western governments, religious leaders and western media is totally different to a few isolated attacks on christians by some misguided madmen. the two cannot be compared.
"

1. Media outlets in Muslim lands compared to Western media outlets are not actually any better, probably worse. Papers such as the Mirror, The Independent and even the Guardian are often anti-wars. That is at least 35% of the press.

2. Afghanistan was attacked for historically acceptable reasons, namely "self defence". Afghanistan was the base for people bombing the USA using jumbo jets, killing people on quite a large scale. It was a declaration of war and they are getting what they have to get.

3. Iraq was attacked for odd reasons but since it was a brutal regime anyway in which over a million died (Iran-Iraq war) I don't think its a great issue. Saddam was a bit of a lose cannon (eg Kuwait thing)...

4. So in what way is the west attacking Islam? We have the Sudan thing (is it called Dafor?) this seems to be Arab Muslims against African Muslims and possibly African Christians. Or the horn of Africa stuff. What about the slaves in Niger? Or the ethnic-religious conflicts in indonesia - is blair responsible for any of this? I doubt it. Lets face it, there are problems and to blame the pope, bush and blair for it all is all to easy and solves nothing. What about southern thailand, surely that is a bit rediculous? Anyway how come the chechens don't wear veils?