Does anyone know what is happening with the Koreans in Afganistan?

[linden branch]

My wife is Korean and so I am interested in this.

Isaac

[tbahrain]

Latest news Al-Jazeera reported that one of the hostages, a male, was killed. They have confirmation from various sources. The Taliban issued an ultimatum that the rest would also be killed if their demand is not met.

tbahrain

[linden branch]

Thank you tbahrain,

Do you mind if I ask whether these actions by the Taliban are acceptable within Islam or are against it? I am saddened to hear of this persons death and hope that it can be resolved quickly so that no further killing is committed.

Thank you again,

Isaac

[Netcurtains3]

BBC Newsnight did a big talk about Islam last night.
It basically said there is no "general" islam view about anything.
The "Islamist" political party in Turkey is a million miles away
from the "Islamist" Taliban in Afghanistan - the difference is
so huge, its like comparing chalk and cheese.

The program came to the conclusion that the world likes the
idea of a bi-polar global view - so you can say "The West"
or "Communists" or "Islamists" but in truth these labels are pretty
meaningless. You can say "Catholic" because there is an organisation
but you can't say islamist or christian view because these terms
are really meaningless - christian covers practically every view
about everything you can imagine and so does islam.

Its much better to see the Afghan war in terms of pretty backward
tribal people - some wanting to advance, some wanting to make
money out of drugs, some wanting religious conservativism and some
wanting ethnic independence. Its not what "islam" thinks is right
but rather what the "tribe" wants to do.

[linden branch]

Dear Netcurtains3,

Thank you for offering that, but I would rather hear from the Muslim participants on this matter.

Isaac

[sister_Harb]

Salaam alaykum;

about those Korean hostages; I have been sent kind of petition to my email few days ago:

http://www.avaaz.org/en/honour_the_afghan_code/?cl=14779611

I have some doubts if kind of petition will help or not in cases like this one but even by there is possible to find some information about the local conditions about the area where they are took as hostages.

[linden branch]

Dear sister Harb,

Thank you for your kind thoughts and concern. It is appreciated and I will pass it along to my wife as well.

Isaac

[Tayeb]

Dear Isaac,

As John said there is no central authority in Islam that can rule on these matters. We had a Caliphate (a central authority in Islam) that the british and their freemason friends in Turkey (Ataturk and his Young Turks) managed to destroy.

The situation in Afghanistan is quite complicated due to the mishandling of affairs by the invading armies. They used the old trick of divide and rule. Under Taliban the production of opium had vanished because they banned it. Now Afghanistan is the biggest producer of opium. The warlords continue to rule as feudal lords, with power over life and death.

Killing innocent civilians is completely prohibited in Islam. But the situation in Afghanistan is not normal. Also what is happening around the World isn't helping either. There is no moral higher ground when the West (specially USA)has secret prisons, holds people indefinitely, kidnaps with impunity, kills extra-judicially, etc.

Ma'a-salaama,

[linden branch]

Dear Tayeb,

I appreciate your thoughts on the matter and agree that the West has no moral high ground in the matter and deeply regret the abuses committed by my government. I also understand that there is no central authority now in existence with Islam. I also appreciate your candor in saying that the killing of innocent civilians is completely prohibited in Islam. I hope that the men holding these Koreans will come to the same conviction and kill no more of the hostages.

Isaac

[tbahrain]

Dear Isaac,

Islam is very clear on what is permitted and what is forbidden in war (as in other things). Could we say that what is happening in Afghanistan and Iraq and Palestine and in Daffur, etc. are due to what is permitted in Islam? We have similar thing happening in Sri Langka and believe me the Sri Lankans are not Muslims.

I think what have been resorted to by these people are for personal reasons i.e vengence against the atrocities committed against them, their families and their people. If I remember my history, during the US Civil War you have bands of mauraiders though not sure about suicide bombers (there were suicidal attacks) but there were also hostage taking of civilians. Of course one must also not forget of the American Indians and the African slaves.

Not being there to experience first hand, we do not know what we would have resorted to in our desperation.

I do not know what they (the Korean civilians) were thinking of when they set off to a war zone and why there were allowed to go there by their own government.

tbahrain.

[linden branch]

Dear tbahrain,

I wasn't blaming Islam for what was happening with the Koreans. I asked if it was permitted by Islam. You did not need to try and justify their actions or provide examples of moral equivalences. I am well aware of similar atrocities by non-muslims.

Isaac

[tbahrain]

Dear Isaac,

The Muslim's code of conduct in war is as this instruction from the First Khalifah Abu Bakar r.a.

‘Oh army, stop and I will order you [to do] ten [things]; learn them from me by heart. You shall not engage in treachery; you shall not act unfaithfully; you shall not engage in deception; you shall not indulge in mutilation; you shall kill neither a young child nor an old man nor a woman; you shall not fell palm trees or burn them; you shall not cut down [any] fruit-bearing tree; you shall not slaughter a sheep or a cow or a camel except for food. You will pass people who occupy themselves in monks’ cells; leave them alone, and leave alone what they busy themselves with. You will come to a people who bring you vessels in which are varieties of food; if you eat anything from [those dishes], mention the name of God over them. You will meet a people who have shaved the middle of their head and have left around it [a ring of hair] like turbans; tap them lightly with the sword. Go ahead, in God’s name; may God make you perish through wounds and plague!’
(I.1850)

tbahrain

[linden branch]

Friend tbahrain,

Thank you for this. It confirms my suspicions on the matter.

Isaac

[Tayeb]

s3 dear br tbahrain,

I didn't understand the last part:

Go ahead, in God’s name; may God make you perish through wounds and plague!’

What's it about. Is is something that hasn't been translated correctly? What's your source?

Ma'a-salaamam

[tbahrain]

w3s br tayeb,

This was taken from a paper I came across. An explanation of the phrase in question was given as it is better to die from wounds sustained in battle and from sickness from plague than to consume anything that are forbidden to take in times of war.

I personally feel this is relevant in the context of earlier reminders of the correct behavior.

As to whether it was incorrectly translated I am unable to ascertain this as I have only the translation.

I have searched the net of similar phrase but as yet to come across. I will provide the source/link if I do find.

tbahrain