hey, i am bran newish.

[ROUKAYA]

hi, i am new here....so i am here:confused:dont know want to see what is this forum,it seems cool inshallah, and :confused:i am hoping this is not owned by the pplz of the arab land,coz allah knows why i hate them.


s3




peace

[Tayeb]

So presumably you are not a Muslim as the prophet was an arab. You cannot be a Muslim and hate arabs without distinguishing them.

[Netcurtains3]

Arabic people are as nice or horrible as anyone else.
People are identical the world over.

[sister_Harb]

Insignificance of Race in Islam

Alhamdulillah. Assalatu Wassalamu Alayka Ya Imamar Rahmah.Sayyiduna Muhammad(s.a.w)
Assalamu Alaikum Dear Muslims!

Islam does not consider race or lineage as determining factors in distinguishing people.

"O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women." (The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 4(An-Nisa'): Verse 1)

"And it is a sign of Allah that he created the heavens and the earth And He created the diversity of languages and colors" [The Holy Qur'an,Chapter 30 (Ar-Rum) : Verse 30;22]

However, its criterion is piety and righteousness. Allah Almighty says

'O mankind! We have created you from a single male and female and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know each other. The most honorable of you in the sight of Allah are surety the righteous." [The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 49 (Al-Hujurat) : Verse 13]


Our origin is from Adam and Hawwa (alaihissalam). What race do they belong to? They were Muslims, that's all. There is no such thing as race, that is the reason why in the above mentioned verse Allah only mention tribes and nation. Race is a new concept brought to the World.


What Is Race?


It wasn't until the 16th century that the word race entered the English language, from the French race - "race, breed, lineage" The meaning " tribe" or " nation" emerged in the 17th century. The modern meaning, "one of the major divisions of mankind", dates to the late 18th century, but it never became exclusive (cf. continued use of "the human race"). The ultimate origin of the word is unknown; suggestions include Arabic ra'is meaning "head", but also "beginning" or "origin". On the other hand, also according to Foucault, at the end of the 19th century, the notion of "race" was adopted by racist biologists and eugenicists , who gave it the modern sense of "biological race", which was then integrated to " state racism".

An alternative to the use of racial or ethnic categories is to categorize individuals in terms of ancestry. Ancestry may be defined geographically (e.g., Asian, sub-Saharan African, or northern European), geopolitically (e.g., Vietnamese, Zambian, or Norwegian), or culturally (e.g., Brahmin, Lemba, or Apache).


The Prophet said: Let people stop boasting about their ancestors. One is only a pious believer or a miserable sinner. All men are sons of Adam, and Adam came from dust (Abu Dawud, Tirmidhi).


We Muslims, are generation from the converts from particular race be it Indian, African, Chinese or Malay. Before our forefather converted to Islam they were known as Indian, Malay or Persian.They were not Muslim, Once they embrace Islam, they left their racial identity and address themselves as only Muslims.So why address ourselves using these racial identification which does not have any indication that you are Muslim?

Who could say anything better than someone who summons to God and acts rightly and says, "I am one of the Muslims"? [The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 41 (Al-Fussilat) : Verse 33]


Even the Prophet's companions after embracing Islam, they called themselves Muslims.Only Muslims. They never differentiated themselves from any other Muslim who is from different race. For example there were some companions who were non-Arabs, like Suhayb, who is from Rome , He did not address himself as Roman Muslim. Neither did Bilal(r.a). Did he call himself as African or Abisynian Muslim? But today Muslims address themselves as Chinese Muslim or Indian Muslim or some simply Malay. Why? We can say we are Muslims and we speak Chinese or born in China . But not Chinese Muslims.


They are nothing but names which you yourselves have given, you and your forefathers. God has sent down no authority for them. They are following nothing but conjecture and what their own selves desire. And that when guidance has reached them from their Lord! [The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 53 (An-Najm) : Verse 23]

There is no such thing as race. If there is then Prophet(s.a.w) WOULD HAVE ACKNOWLEDGE IT. For example, he said in a hadith that there is no such thing like you are from Arab race. He said "If you speak Arabic you are Arab!"


A man once visited the Prophet's mosque in Madinah. There he saw a group of people sitting and discussing their faith together. Among them were Salman (who came from Persia ), Suhayb who grew up in the Eastern Roman empire and was regarded as a Greek, and Bilal who was an African. The man then said:

"If the (Madinan) tribes of Aws and Khazraj support Muhammad, they are his people (that is, Arabs like him). But what are these people doing here?"

The Prophet became very angry when this was reported to him. Straightaway, he went to the mosque and summoned people to a Salat. He then addressed them saying:

"O people, know that the Lord and Sustainer is One. Your ancestor is one, your faith is one. The Arabism of anyone of you is not from your mother or father. It is no more than a tongue (language). Whoever speaks Arabic is an Arab." (As quoted in Islam The Natural Way by Abdul Wahid Hamid p. 125


There are many hadith, which repeatedly strike on the Arab pride of jahiliyyah. Arabs before Islam used to look down upon others specially blacks. The Prophet repeatedly contrasted the believing Africans versus non-believing Arab nobles.

The Prophet said: You should listen to and obey your ruler even if he was an Ethiopian slave whose head looked like a raisin (Bukhari).

Ponder this: when the Muslims conquered Makkah, victorious after years of persecution, then war with the non-believing Quraysh, the Prophet went straight to the Kaba.

This was the height of the victory of Islam. He brought some other Muslims with him. He could have chosen only Muslims from the Quraysh, people of his own ethnic and tribal background. He also could have chosen only Arabs or only those of the old noble classes.

But two of the people who entered the Kaba with the Prophet were Bilal ibn Rabah and Zaid ibn Haritha. Bilal, an African and a former slave. Zaid was also not of high status from the tribal Quraysh point of view. Then entered a Qurayshi, Abdullah bin Omar, may Allah be pleased with all of them.

On this day of victory, success and happiness was for all Muslims, no matter who they were or where they come from.

It is confirmed in the narration of the two freedmen among the Companions who quarreled, whereupon each one hurled at the other the name of his ethnic origin by way of insult, namely: "You Copt!" and "You Abyssinian!" Hearing this, the Prophet (saws) said to them: "Stop this, for you are now both from Aal(family) Muhammad." (Abu al-Yusr `Abidin _al-Qawl al-Wathiq fi Amr al-Raqiq_ citing al-Sayyid al-Hifni's _ al-Jawahir al-Hisan fi Tarikh al-Habashan)

Whoever favour a particular race over another are wrong. Some people think that because Prophet spoke Arabic and Quran is in Arabic. Arabs are better than others. This is not true. Muslims are encouraged to learn Arabic because to understand Islam completely you need to have the knowledge of Arabic. As for people having Arabic as mother tongue, they are not superior to other Muslims of different language. If this is the case for Arabic, what about other languages in which Muslims take pride of like Urdu, Malay or Turkish? The hadith;"Hubb al-`Arab min al-iman", "The love of Arabs is from belief." But this is forged (mawdu`) according to Abu Hatim, Ibn al-Jawzi, al-Dhahabi, and others.

The Prophet said: 'Indeed my friends and allies are not the tribe of so and so. Rather, my friends and allies a re the pious wherever they may be.'


You who believe! Enter absolutely into peace (Islam). Do not follow in the footsteps of Satan. He is an outright enemy to you. [The Holy Qur'an, Chapter 2 (Al-Baqarah) : Verse 208]

[Netcurtains3]

sister_harb,
"racism" is not new.
Genesis was written thousands of years ago (based on Persian/Greek and Semitic tales).
It splits humanity into three "races"


* Ham, forefather of the southern peoples (Hamitic Africa)
* Shem, forefather of the middle peoples (Semitic)
* Japheth, forefather of the northern peoples (Japhetic Eurasia)

The names of the Eponyms or children have meanings in the Hebrew language.
Ham means "warm".[1]
Shem merely means "name" or "renown", "prosperity".[2]
Japeth means "open".[3]

(all positive)

However the most facsinating "racist" (hinted at in the bible by the people who died in the "flood" being mighty giants - NEANDERTHALS.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal#The_fate_of_the_Neanderthals
There is some evidence (not conclusive) that modern Europeans might be generically linked to Neanderthals.

"
Recent genetic simulations suggested that 5% of human DNA can only be accounted for by assuming a substantial contribution of Neanderthaler to the European gene pool of up to 25%.[11]
"
Does that mean Europeans are not fully Human?

[Tayeb]

s3 dear sisters and John,

Races do exist. Islam doesn't differenciate them. A white is not superior to a black, a black is not superior to a white, an Arab is not superior to non-Arab, a non-Arab is not superior to an Arab.

The Holy Qur'an was written in pristine Arabic, our prophet spoke Arabic.

We as Muslims ought not hate any race or distinguish people on basis of their race but on their character and belief.

Ma'a-salaama,

[sister_Harb]

Dear Net;

with you I mostly think my English is very bad because I have no idea what Neanderthals are doing with this matter.

:confused:

[Netcurtains3]

Sister_Herb,
There is much academic debate as to whether
Neanderthals were human beings (a "race") or a seperate
intelligent creature that existed at the same time
as human beings. If there was some limited
inter-breding between humans and neanderthals
(as lions can breed with tigers or horses with zebras)
and if Neanderthals are not counted as "human"
this would mean that Europeans (like me?) were part
non-human - ha ha - interesting moral point.

Tayeb,
Its not superior - its different.... Racism does not imply
superiority but rather admiting that there are differnces.
gurkha and other high altitude peoples have an ability
(on average) of being able to endure long distances.
Light boned people (some europeans) can swim well....
But on average for every positive attribute we normally
have a negative attribute that tends to make as all
average.

[sister_Harb]

Dear Net;

still I have no idea what just Neanderthals are doing in this thread. If they were humans I respect them, if animals I respect them too.

s3

[Netcurtains3]

sister_herb,
lots of things are uncertain about Neanderthals,
but one thing is certain - they don't exist now.
Thus there is a strong posibility that Asians,
Middle East People and Europeans are all decended
from genocidal racists (Neanderthals existed
in all these areas). Religion does not protect
against racism - in fact religious people sometimes
(because of their inate conservativism) have
more racism amongst them then other groups.
We all know about Christians but it also was in
Muslim culture too:
"
The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slaves, forced the group to retreat further inland to avoid contact with outsiders.
"
Sad but all too true.
The more we reject our racist past, the more likely we are
to repeat those same mistakes now.
We're all decended from genocidal racists - that is my
opinion.
"

[sister_Harb]

:rolleyes:

Dear Net, Neanderthals. Ok but I have no idea what this matter has to do with islamic perpective about races.

:rolleyes:

[Netcurtains3]

sister_harb,
Are you saying you're one of those muslim that does not like to mix science with religion but you do not mind mixing politics with religion?
Can you explain further what you are getting at?

[sister_Harb]

:D

No. As I wrote before:

"If they (Neanderthals) were humans I respect them, if animals I respect them too."

s3

[Tayeb]

Tayeb,
Its not superior - its different.... Racism does not imply
superiority but rather admiting that there are differnces.
gurkha and other high altitude peoples have an ability
(on average) of being able to endure long distances.
Light boned people (some europeans) can swim well....
But on average for every positive attribute we normally
have a negative attribute that tends to make as all
average.

Here we we stand apart. I see no race on people for me they are all human beings. If they are dark skinned or white, if they have some physical atributes or not don't matter to me. What matters to me how they behave and correspond.

The prophet when he said no arab is superior to noin-arab he meant the preconceived notions you mention if they are good at racing camles or speak a sophisticated language.

[Netcurtains3]

Tayeb,
If you take your thinking to its logical conclusion
you are saying that you would be happy walking
passed a group of teenagers (skinheads) down any
street in any part of town - it would all be the
same to you - you would have no preconceived
thoughts about some parts of town or sub-cultures
compared to others - and indeed - if the group was old
age pensioners instead of skin-heads you would not feel
any safer - each would be equal in every respect?
I would like to follow you in your belief but I do not have
the guts to behave like that - I would be more scared
of one group compared to another - and I know that
most times my fear would be irrational but still I cannot
help it - that is how I feel.

[sister_Harb]

Dear Net;

some weeks ago one "skinhead" stopped me on my street and asked me am I muslim. So as I use hijab it is quite easy to see I am, so I said yes. And what he did after that? He told me that he has all the time thinking that just muslims are nice and kindly people and that he is interesting to know more about this religion.

:p

[tbahrain]

John, you quoted: The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slaves, forced the group to retreat further inland to avoid contact with outsiders.

I did a word string search with "The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slaves". The search returns 7 results from 7 sites and ALL 7 SITES RETURN THE EXACT PHRASE WORK FOR WORD. By this I conclude that all including en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orang_Asli come from one SINGLE source.

I spent four years during the 60s living in their midst and listened to their folklore and never heard of their enslavement by the Malays.

tbahrain

[tbahrain]

Sorry for the typo. Should read "word for word".

Here's the result of my search "The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slaves":

1.
Orang Asli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orang Asli (lit, "original peoples" or "aboriginal peoples" in Malay) is a ... The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slaves, ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orang_Asli - 55k - Cached
2.
Orang Asli - Cameron Highlands
The Orang Asli are further divided into 18 sub-ethnic group according to their ... The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slave, ...
cameron.moonlightchest.com/orang_asli.asp - Cached
3.
[PDF]
Natural Resource Management Country Studies
613k - Adobe PDF - View as HTML
... the rise of the Malay sultanates coincided with a trade in Orang Asli slaves that ... August 1998 coinciding with the establishment of the Department of ...
regionalcentrebangkok.undp.or.th/practices/.../NRM_Malaysia.pdf
4.
[PDF]
untitled
740k - Adobe PDF - View as HTML
... the rise of the Malay sultanates coincided with a trade in Orang Asli slaves that ... force on 1st August 1998, coinciding with the establishment of the ...
regionalcentrebangkok.undp.or.th/.../Bridging the Gap - 4-Malaysia.pdf
5.
malay hardcore
The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slaves, forced the ... Orang Asli - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. oral sex ...
www.zapafly.com/malay+hardcore.html - 72k - Cached
6.
Reference.com/Encyclopedia/Orang Asli
Reference.com free online encyclopedia article for Orang Asli, powered by Wikipedia ... The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slave, ...
www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Orang_Asli
7.
OTOVAGANZA - Automotive Preview,News and Information
The rise of the Malay sultanates, coinciding with trade in Orang Asli slave, ... Besides these, some Orang Asli also speak the Malay language, the official ...
www.otovaganza.com/malaysia.php?q=Orang_Asli - 74k

tbahrain

[Netcurtains3]

Tbahrain,
If you simply look at your own langauge you can see words for slavery that developed at the time of the Sultanate:
http://www.malaysilat.org/malaysilat-volumes/volume2.pdf

But believe what you want to believe.

"
Even the Melayu language denotes
stratification. The historical Melayu referred to
himself in the third article as ‘hamba’ (slave) and
the second party as ‘tuan hamba’ (you). In fact,
the word ‘saya’ (me) stems from the original word
‘sahaya’ which also means slave. Meanwhile, the
Sultan is accorded special vocabulary when he
speaks or when spoken of to differentiate between
him and commoners.
‘Beta’ (me), ‘titah’
"

[Tayeb]

Dear John,

Again we are discussing character and behaviour. Surely this group of skinheads for what they are known to be (and having known personally some who are also harmless), I'll avoid getting near them as I'll be foolish. Yet even then I don't hate them as human beings but for their character and behaviour.

Ma'a-salaama.

[Tayeb]

I have locked this tread as it is deviating completely from what was a simple introduction by a new member. I will only unlock it for the original author.