Assalamalikum

[khalid2277]

Nice to join this forum. Good to interact with you all.
Dr Khalid Munir,
Consultant Geriatrician.
Hyderabad, AP, India.
http://drkhalidmunir.googlepages.com

[tbahrain]

s3, br

Welcome. Hope you will enjoy your visits here and looking forward to your participation.

tbahrain

[Om_Mohammed]

Assalaamu alaikum.

Welcome to the site, Dr. Khalid. Do take a look around, and join in on the discussions, or start a new one of topic of interest to yourself.

Looking forward to more interaction with you as well as others.

Om Mohammed.

[Netcurtains3]

Hello,
I'm John (or Net) from
Southern England.
religiously I'm between a catholic (a nice idea) and an atheist (If I was god I would say hello) and a communist (all people should have equal assets)
politically I'm a consevative (less taxation).
by profession and economic standing:
I'm self-employed lower middle class .

[zeinab]

assalamu alaikum
Nice to join this forum
I am able to speak very little english:(
I live in Turkey in istanbul
very nice site
congratulations

[Tayeb]

w3s sr Zeinab

Welcome to myciw.org. We look forward in seeing you here regularly and participating. Don't worry with your english. It should be OK.

Ma'a-salaama,

[Om_Mohammed]

Assalaamu alaikum, sr. Zeineb.

Welcome to the forums. And I'm sure your English will be sufficient for some basic communication. Pleas do have a look around, and jump into the discussions.

Om Mohammed.

[michael klein]

i want to learn more ant one know of any courses

[sister_Harb]

Welcome to Michael Klein.

s3

And to zeinab and khalid.

[zeinab]

thank you very much
You consoled me:)
you are very good
Allah razı olsun

[Tayeb]

i want to learn more ant one know of any courses

Dear Michael,

Welcome to myiwc.com and we look forward in seeing you here regularly.

In fact there are many courses on Islam, but not here as such. We have here a simple introduction to Islam that you can read at:

http://myiwc.com/modules.php?name=Islam

We have also a number of documentation on Islam if you look into main menu at the Portal Homepage in www.myiwc.com. We also have Online Quran with link at the the same main menu.

On courses as such, you will need to tell us first what you really want. An introduction to Islam or something more advanced.

Ma'a-salaama,

[sister_Harb]

and a communist (all people should have equal assets)


Salaam

How surprising Net, I am communist too as I am member of Finnish Communist Party.

:cool:

[Netcurtains3]

sister_harb,
So we both agree on one thing then.

[sister_Harb]

:D

Even in one thing. My communist friends here are not be surprised that I use hijab and be muslimah. For them it is just ok.

[Netcurtains3]

I do not really know what those names mean
but to most people and communists (lol)
what you wear is your own business providing
its not too weird like a face mask or you are naked.

[sister_Harb]

Dear Net;

this is not right place for this kind of discussion as this is welcoming lounge. If you have something personal to me, send even pm.

:o

[roleary]

:D

Even in one thing. My communist friends here are not be surprised that I use hijab and be muslimah. For them it is just ok.

... uh oh, I see a problem. I guess it is not really of importance nowadays, but.... religion is a big no no in traditional (or at least marxian) communism. I believe in fact religion was deemed "the opiate of the masses" by the big man of communism himself Karl Marx. I think that there are many who would say that communism in its purest form, and not socialism, would not allow religion and therefore be incompatible with Islam, especially since marriage, statehood, families, etc. are all prohibited in a true communist state as theorized by Marx, although the world has yet too and hopefully will not ever see a true communist society.

[Netcurtains3]

hi roleary,
you are correct in that the communist manifesto states:

"
"There are, besides, eternal truths, such as Freedom, Justice, etc., that are common to all states of society. But communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality, instead of constituting them on a new basis; it therefore acts in contradiction to all past historical experience."
"
http://www.anu.edu.au/polsci/marx/classics/manifesto.html
However I think communism has evolved since the 1850s and it is quite possible that the Communist party of Finland no longer is rigidly atheist.

If you read the communist manifesto its basically anti-christian religion (in particular the Catholic church and Tsarist Russia) - I don't think its at all bothered about protestants, buddhists or muslims. Its VERY FIRST LINE is an attack on the Pope.

[roleary]

yes, nowadays everything seems to be a mere shadow of its original... oh well. sigh.:( All in the name of progress I suppose.

[Tayeb]

I do not really know what those names mean
but to most people and communists (lol)
what you wear is your own business providing
its not too weird like a face mask or you are naked.

Dear John,

Normally Niqab is not a face mask or any mask. It is a face veil. Please respect us so that we can respect you. You have in the past used the same derrogatory expression.

We take offense as Niqab is a Muslim tradition whether you like it or not.

[Netcurtains3]

a veil in English allows you to see the face (like a wedding veil)
but through a type of gauze material.

a mask does not allow you to see the face.
Its not derogatory -its factual.
I'm not prepared to call it a veil because it is not gause but I
can call it "covered face" if you feel that
is a better expression then mask.

This is a veil:
http://arabist.net/hatshepsut/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/a_bride_with_wedding_veil.jpg

John

[sister_Harb]

Dear Net,

That might be veil to you but not to us.

:(

I have promised that I use just veil in Finland but nigab in Gaza when I will travel to there with my husband and no, I don´t feel myself oppdressed by that but just only free.

:)

[Netcurtains3]

Sister_harb,
you do not understand.
A covered face does not oppress the wearer,
it CAN SCARE or WORRY or UPSET or UNSETTLE
those people who have to walk past people like that.
Its not the wearer who is at a disadvantage , its
the other person. The wearer is not oppressed,
it is the wearers fellow human being who is being
potentially oppressed. I know I personally feel
upset and I know that I am not the only person,
by a very long way.

[sister_Harb]

Dear Net;

and who´s care?

I walk covered and I am free!

[roleary]

a veil in English allows you to see the face (like a wedding veil)
but through a type of gauze material.

a mask does not allow you to see the face.
Its not derogatory -its factual.
I'm not prepared to call it a veil because it is not gause but I
can call it "covered face" if you feel that
is a better expression then mask.

This is a veil:
http://arabist.net/hatshepsut/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/a_bride_with_wedding_veil.jpg

John

wow, this is rather upsurd. I guess we need here a in depth definition of english words mask and veil to get to the bottom of this.


VEIL (dictionary.com)
1. a piece of opaque or transparent material worn over the face for concealment, for protection from the elements, or to enhance the appearance.
2. a piece of material worn so as to fall over the head and shoulders on each side of the face, forming a part of the headdress of a nun.
3. the life of a nun, esp. a cloistered life.
4. something that covers, separates, screens, or conceals: a veil of smoke; the veil of death.
5. a mask, disguise, or pretense: to find fault under a veil of humor.
6. Botany, Anatomy, Zoology. a velum.
7. Mycology. a membrane that covers the immature mushroom of many fungi and breaks apart as the mushroom expands, leaving distinctive remnants on the cap, stalk, or stalk base.
8. Scot. and North England. a caul.
–verb (used with object)
9. to cover or conceal with or as with a veil: She veiled her face in black. A heavy fog veiled the shoreline.
10. to hide the real nature of; mask; disguise: to veil one's intentions.
–verb (used without object)
11. to don or wear a veil: In certain Islamic countries women must veil.


Here we see that the word VEIL does not rigidly refer only the the transparent "gauze", but also to other facial coverings such as what is worn by nuns and women in some Islamic countries, as is mentioned directly at the bottom verb usage

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/veil

[roleary]

^^ note the use of word "must" wear veil, as oppose to CHOOSE to wear veil.

[Netcurtains3]

Roleary,
You said you were going to put the definition of both the veil and MASK - but,
actually, in the end you only put veil.
This is the definition of mask:

This is the number one definition in the freeonline dictionary:

"
1. A covering worn on the face to conceal one's identity, as:
"

It then gives examples: The number one example of the mask:
a. A covering, as of cloth, that has openings for the eyes, entirely or partly conceals the face.....
"

Now, tell me honestly, from both definitions what is closest mask or veil?

[roleary]

I would say that they are equally fitting when not taking into account cultural uses, merely looking at definitions since under veil it actually says "a mask, disguise,...", under veil it actually references the word mask. So clearly they mean virtually the same thing or can be applied to describe the same thing in certain instances. With this in mind I would say, and think most would agree, that using the word veil instead of mask when describing the hijab or niqab so as to not offend would cause no harm or confusion to an outsider. When you say mask the immediate image is a goofy halloween costume that covers the entire face, or like a ski mask, surely what is traditionally adorned to muslim women is nothing of the sort. But when you use the word face veil something more exotic comes to mind, perhaps like that worn traditionally in india or even the very sort worn by muslim women, maybe even that worn by westerners at funerals, even the veil worn by wetserners at funerals resembles the muslim niqab more than a ski mask!

[Tayeb]

Roleary,
You said you were going to put the definition of both the veil and MASK - but,
actually, in the end you only put veil.
This is the definition of mask:

This is the number one definition in the freeonline dictionary:

"
1. A covering worn on the face to conceal one's identity, as:
"

It then gives examples: The number one example of the mask:
a. A covering, as of cloth, that has openings for the eyes, entirely or partly conceals the face.....
"

Now, tell me honestly, from both definitions what is closest mask or veil?

You use the word mask because you express this way your disaproval. But it is not up to you because you are not a Muslim. A Muslim woman has the right to wear a veil to cover her face. She does not want to desguise her identity when she wears niquab but she does it out of ther love of traditions of the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

[Netcurtains3]

Tayeb,
you said:
"you express this way your disaproval."
That is true.
Anyway, this is a welcome thread.
So welcome everyone - I was epressing my opinion
in response to others. But nevertheless, I still
am pleased to hear from and welcome your views
even if you do or do not cover your face.