American viewpoint of Islam
Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.
Found this on another board I visit. I would appreciate your thoughts on the matter. I have MANY more...but lets start with this viewpoint since it seems to encompass the feelings of many in the Western World...not all, just many.
" ...you hurt your cause when you say that you're Muslims first and Americans second, then you tell us how you want to get into Jihad somewhere. Jihad in this context obviously means you intend to kill anyone you feel is harmful to Islam?and that could and probably does include most of us, your fellow Americans.
In case you hadn't noticed, the United States, your professed home, happens to be in a war with radical Islam. President Bush was right when he said we are just beginning. This is going to be a long conflict and Islamic states are going to fall as a result of our campaign to rid the entire world of Islamic terrorism. If we do not rid the world of Islamic terrorism, Islamic terrorists will eventually acquire a nuclear weapon and use it on us. That weapon will likely come from a state that already harbors and supports Islamic terrorists, such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iraq or Iran. We simply cannot permit this to happen. The attacks on 9-11 were merely a harbinger of things to come. Does anyone here think for one second that if the terrorists that crashed into the WTC had had a nuclear weapon, they would NOT have used it on New York or Washington? We can prevent this frightening scenario only by preemptively destroying those who would destroy us.
In this war, certain of our citizens are going to suffer from discrimination. That is a simple fact of war in a diverse, multicultural society like ours. I, and most of my fellow Americans decry this bad behavior towards any group, including my peaceful Muslim neighbors. On the other hand, I have heard far too many Muslims from all over the world; including right here in the United States (Are you listening Farrakhan?) profess their support for bin Laden and his gang. That?s not going to earn you any Brownie points?so be prepared to suffer the slings and arrows of your fellow Americans if you show sympathy towards our enemies.
I'm an old man...I have seen Islamic terrorists blowing up school busses, planes, airports; killing crippled old men on cruise ships, shooting American servicemen on hijacked airplanes, blowing up USN warships, USMC barracks, USAF barracks, American and Israeli embassies, murdering Olympic athletes, and hijacking four airliners and crashing them into the WTC and the Pentagon. In the last several decades, thousands of innocent persons from around the world have been brutally murdered by Islamic terrorists. For decades, American policy has been that of engagement and defense, while all the time pandering to the Arab Street in an attempt to maintain a geopolitical balance in the Middle East and to keep the vital oil pipeline open. For decades while the fools down at Foggy Bottom have pursued the various ?peace initiatives? and ?dialogues?, innocents have been murdered. Until the first WTC attack, Islamic terrorists had pretty much avoided direct attacks on the United States, preferring to kill our people overseas, whenever the opportunity presented itself. No longer. The gloves are now off and the war is underway.
I for one, am damn tired of these terrorists killing my countrymen, women and children. And you two and I both know that the terrorists aren?t about to stop. As long as they are alive and have access to resources, we will continue to suffer. The sad part is, IF Muslims were to put down the sword, Muslim lives would be improved around the world. Hell, there is a large anti-Israel lobby here already that would be glad to send billions of [more] aid to Islamic countries. When was the last time the United States refused foreign aid to anybody? Problem is?Muslim terrorist?the TRUE believers, CAN?T put down the sword, can they? You know that as well, don?t you? Isn?t that why you want Jihad? As long as there are Israelis, as long as there are Christian infidels in Muslim lands, in fact as long as there are Christians or other non-believers around the world that Islam has not converted, your fellow Muslims will be unable to reconcile their lives without blood on the blade. Isn?t that true? You and your brethren can?t stop because the Quran TELLS you not to stop. The Quran and the teachings of the Prophet Mohammad ORDER you to kill; to convert, enslave, or kill! And don?t try to convince me that isn?t the case. Been there?read that. See?I am a former teacher of Muslim military students. I know what drives you guys. Also, please don?t try to convince me that it?s OK if a Muslim doesn?t pay attention to those parts of Muslim dogma that preach death and destruction to the infidels. I don?t buy that.
Islam cannot turn back the clock. What is, is. Islam was the most powerful force over most of the civilized world for nearly 700 years. No longer. For nearly seven centuries, from the early 700s, until the late 14th century, Islam was all conquering, and all powerful. Islam spread entirely by the sword, converting or killing everyone in its path as it stretched from Mecca all across Africa, all the way north to Budapest and Vienna and east to the Philippines. Those were the happy times for you guys. Unfortunately, Islam doesn't adapt too well to technology and to the changing world in which we live. As the European infidels moved out of the Dark Ages, into the modern world and learned all the new sciences and technologies critical to commerce and war, they began to gain a critical edge on their former masters, eventually pushing Islam into full retreat. It has been thus for some 300 years now. The West and Christianity have gained pre-eminence and held it over Islam now for this long period. Islam is full of hate right now because of this retreat, because infidels are too close to the sacred sites, and possibly most painfully for Muslims, because infidel western culture and ideas are creeping into Muslim homes. This has happened in the past, but never before so quickly as now in the information age we live in. Possibly the greatest failure of Islam is twofold: Its inherent inflexibility and its inability to change.
This ability to adapt and prosper in an ever-changing world is directly related to what is possibly the greatest fundamental difference between Christians and Muslims. Christians live essentially a dual life: We are able to separate the faith from our daily lives and live by the secular laws of our society. The Bible, in Luke 20:25 explains this: ?And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's?. This has no parallel in Islam and is an impossible scenario for Muslims, since the Quran controls every waking moment of your day. There isn?t even a word in Islam for the term secular (a: of or relating to the worldly or temporal; b: not overly religious)
There is now an imperative in our world now to exterminate Islamic terrorists before they can kill us. We must also go after any country that harbors, supports, and provides terrorists with the means with which to harm us. IF we fail to do so, IF we don?t win this war, we will suffer far greater damage that the attack on 9-11. From my perspective, that simply is not an option.
Sorry guys?you CAN?T have it both ways. It is impossible for you to be a Muslim desiring Jihad and still be an American citizen, loyal to the Constitution of the United States. You must make a choice. It appears that you have chosen to follow the path of the Islamic sword. You are making a huge mistake?as are your fellow Muslims around the world who wish to war with us. We will win and it isn?t going to be pretty.
If you feel so strongly about Jihad against those whom you feel would harm Islam, then I recommend you go to Pakistan, pick up a gun, hook up with one of the Al Qaeda cells and begin your Jihad. Just don?t ask for rights and privileges if you survive your first encounter with American troops."
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
Assalaamu alaikum ya muslimeen.
This quotation from another discussion board is obviously a typical representation of a person very misinformed about Islam and Islamic values, as well as completely bigoted and biased against Islam and Muslim.
I would like to make an emphasis on a basic element here, and that is the mistake of equivalating Jihad with terrorism. The two could not be further apart. However, this quotation is proving evidence that the person making these statements is under the impression that the two are in fact one and the same.
Jihad is a struggle. NOT and 'intent to kill'. If, during that struggle, the oppressors, or the opponents against Islam and Muslims die, then that is part of the struggle. And, if during that struggle, the muslim dies, then that, too, is part of the struggle. The point is the struggle itself, and not the dying.
And this struggle, or Jihad, can and does take many forms, and not necessarily or only fighting. It is a struggle. Period.
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-08-02 AT 06:08 AM (GMT)]Assalaamu alaikum.
I thank you for your response. If you will please indulge me further with some more details.
I have explained, in futility, the definitions of Jihad & how they differ from terrorism.
Many Americans read the Quran & quote passages that call for violence against the nonbelievers. I have had a very difficult time defending Islam against these quotes.
What are your thoughts on reconciling Islam's message of peace & tolerance against the many quotes provided to me by, very angry, Christians who are literally calling for a nuclear retaliation against all Islamic countries in the Middle East? Some are so outraged at what happened last year that they wish to see ALL Muslims dead in America & elsewhere!!
A few of the quotes they continually mention include:
O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]
Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)
Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)
I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips of them. (Koran 8:12)
They should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides. (Koran 5:33)
"Know that paradise is under the shades of swords." Sahih al-Bukhari Vol 4 p55
They go on to mention that the New Testament of the Bible shows a loving, compassionate God, while the Allah of the Quran is portrayed as a vengeful & angry God...in THEIR view.
They also claim that Islam is nothing more than Moon worshipping...but that is another, very angry, thread we can discuss later. The degree of hatred I see for Islam from SOME Americans is bewildering & very disconcerting.
Edited to add:
I sincerely apologize if you find this offensive. I reviewed the IWC rules of posting & understand that this may be pushing the boundaries of posting...however, I hope you will indulge & assist me in finding some answers.
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
I think what many Christians forget to do when they pull out these verses is to study "when, why, what" these verses really say. As a Muslim, we rely heavily on the science of Tafseer to know what each verse really means. Recently I finished studying a subject on the "science of Quraan" and we learned that some verses were particular to a specific time... thus u must know when and where the verses were revealed. Also why... to whom... who does it refer to.
There is no where in the Quraan where it says go kill all christians .. it would say kill the Kuffar... the disbelievers .. why though? they have harmed the prophet... kicked Muslims form their land... faught against them... and even when Muslims went to a new land.. they still didn't leave them in peace. Muslims are not told to stand and watch ourselves be oppressed... but to stand up for justice.. it is justice to want to live in peace... it is justice to claim what is MINE.
some people might think i'm an extremist but... I say fight those who fight us. Anyone who hates islam and Muslims and harms us.. deserves to be faught... however, the quraan does not say to just go out of no where.. and kill all. Besides... if u study the history of islam, you will see that in all battles... the kids and women were not killed. Because they were harmless... however women who were against the Muslims and tried to plot against the prophet peace be upon him.. they were killed.
Islam is justice and in all matters we call for peace... but not humility!
I will look up the tafsir of these verses inshaAllah later on if i get the time... and let u know exactly what and who they refer to. :)
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-08-02 AT 05:44 PM (GMT)]Thanks Rasha...I look forward to reading your reply.
Is there a website that discusses the Tafseer? Ran a search...found a bunch. Thanks for bringing this matter to my attention.
edited for spelling...or lack of!
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
You are welcome.
I believe you must be very careful where u get tafsir from... not all sites are accurate. Recommended tafsir is that of Ibn Kathir.
this is not complete but has some things u might want to look at.
I will look for more inshaAllah.
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-08-02 AT 07:39 PM (GMT)]Hi Matrix,
Just a quick thought for you about "throwing stones and living in a glass house".
You say the Quran has some unpleasent passages about killing Christians and Jews. Now look at the Old Testament Bible. Its full of stories of Jews wiping out Arabic people - even a part were all the first born babies in Egypt are killed.
Why is one set of stories ok and the other not? Surely you are being egocentric in your theological view - In reality is your view always correct?
PS - I support the war against terrorism - within reason as do most Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu and Christian people. I guess how far we go depends on how far the relatives of the 3,000 dead want to take it - many of them were Muslim. What do the relatives of the dead think?
In Ireland it is nearly always the relatives of those who died that take it further. The cycle of violence needs to be broken - that is how peace is created. Someone somewhere has to TURN THE OTHER CHEEK. Someone has to break the cycle of violence - it has to be a RELATIVE.
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
It is not my view that I was expressing. When I said "Many Americans read the Quran..." I meant that many Americans that I have communicated with on the Internet & had conversations with always quote the Quran as being violent. I have brought the argument of the Old Testament to their attention. Their response is that the Old Testament is a reference only. That they have a new covenant with God, through Jesus, via the New Testatment....which preaches only peace & harmony. Sounds like a cop-out to me but this is pretty much what all of them say.
I am not a Christian. I am a Muslim.
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
I agree with you - its a cop out.
However the two most famous sayings of Jesus are:
"turn the other cheek"
"love your enemies"
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 29-08-02 AT 10:50 PM (GMT)]Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah Dear Brother !
Firstly, i wish to tell you, dear brother, that our duty is to convey the truth. If Allah Wills, the person who hears the truth, will accept it. Otherwise, he won't. Remember, Allah's Will is accomplished. Our duty is to convey.
Sometimes, we encounter stubborn people. Our duty is to convey the truth to these people, and that's it. If they accept the truth, Alhamdulilah. If they don't, then say to them "Peace", and leave.
"What are your thoughts on reconciling Islam's message of peace & tolerance against the many quotes provided to me by, very angry, Christians who are literally calling for a nuclear retaliation against all Islamic countries in the Middle East? Some are so outraged at what happened last year that they wish to see ALL Muslims dead in America & elsewhere!!"
What these people do is that they conceal the truth. Whenever they quote verses from the Qur'an, they never quote the entire verse, but only part of it.
As for their calls for a nuclear retaliation. Who cares? We fear none but Allah. We should not fear them, or their nuclear weapons. Trust Allah. Why should you, or any other Muslim, feel worried by their belligerent remarks? Remember the saying "Empty vessels make the most noise". Such is the case with these people. Allah Willing, they will be punished severely.
"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends."
Here is the response to this :
Question : A Greek Christian friend of mine came to me and said that he wanted a book that guides him to the way a man should live. I handed him a copy of the Qur'an. He took deep interest in reading it until he came across the following verse: “O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily God guideth not a people unjust.” (Al-Ma’dah: 54) Reading the verse, he asked "why is that so?" Why is your book telling you that we can't be your friends? Does that mean I can't be your friend? And at his request I am seeking help from you to throw some light on it. I am too confused by this. And if that is so then why does Islam allow us to marry Christian and Jewish girls (Despite the fact they might not want to change their religion.) Please reply soon.
Answer : Wa`alaykum As-Salaamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.
In The Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Dear questioner, thank you very much for having confidence in us, and we hope our efforts, which are purely for Allah's Sake, meet your expectations. In his response to the question, Dr. Muzammil Siddiqi, former president of the Islamic Society of North America, states the following: “The Qur'an does not say that non-Muslims cannot be Muslims' friends, nor does it forbid Muslims to be friendly to non-Muslims. There are many non-Muslims who are good friends of Muslim individuals and the Muslim community. There are also many good Muslims who truly and sincerely observe their faith and are very friendly to many non-Muslims at the same time. Islam teaches us that we should be friendly to all people. Islam teaches us that we should deal even with our enemies with justice and fairness. Allah says in the Qur'an in the beginning of the same Surat Al-Ma’dah: “O you who believe! Stand out firmly for Allah as witnesses to fair dealings and let not the hatred of others to you make you swerve to wrong and depart from justice. Be just, that is next to piety. Fear Allah, indeed Allah is well-acquainted with all that you do.” (Al-Ma’dah :8) In another place in the Qur'an, Allah Almighty says: “Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers.” (Al-Mumtahinah: 8-9) Moreover, Allah Almighty has described Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, as "a mercy" to the worlds. He was a sign of Allah's Mercy to all, Muslims as well as non-Muslims. In his kindness and fair treatment he did not make any difference between the believers and non-believers. He was kind to the pagans of Makkah and fought them only when they fought him. He made treaties with the Jews of Madinah and honored the treaties until they broke them. He, peace and blessings be upon him, is reported to have received the Christians of Najran with kindness in his Masjid in Madinah. They argued with him about Islam, but he returned them with honor and respect. There are many examples from his life that show that he was the friendliest person to all people. In the verse you quoted, the word "Awliya" is used. It is a plural and its singular is "wali". The correct translation of the word ""wali"" is not "friend" but it is someone who is very close and intimate. It is also used to mean "guardian, protector, patron, lord and master". In the Qur'an this word is used for God, such as “Allah is the Protector (or Lord and Master) of those who believe. He takes them out from the depths of darkness to light…” (Al- Baqarah: 257) There are many other references in the Qur'an that give this meaning. The same word is also sometimes used in the Qur'an for human beings, such as “And whosoever is killed unjustly, We have granted his next kin "wali" the authority (to seek judgement or punishment in this case)…”(Al-‘Isra' :33) The correct translation of the verse in Surat Al-Ma’idah is: “O you who believe! Do not take Jews and Christians as your patrons. They are patrons of their own people. He among you who will turn to them for patronage is one of them. Verily Allah guides not a people unjust.” (Al-Ma'dah :51) It is obvious that Jews patronize the Jews and Christians patronize the Christians, so why not Muslims patronize Muslims and support their own people. This verse is not telling us to be against Jews or Christians, but it is telling us that we should take care of our own people and we must support each other. In his Tafsir, (Qur’an exegesis) Imam Ibn Kathir has mentioned that some scholars say that this verse (i.e. the one you referred to) was revealed after the Battle of Uhud when Muslims had a set back. At that time, a Muslim from Madinah said, "I am going to live with Jews so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah." And another person said, "I am going to live with Christians so I shall be safe in case another attack comes on Madinah." So Allah revealed this verse reminding the believers that they should not seek the protection from others, but should protect each other. (See Ibn Kathir, Al-Tafsir, vol. 2, p. 68) Muslims are allowed to have non-Muslims as friends as long as they keep their own faith and commitment to Islam pure and strong. You are correct in pointing out that a Muslim man is also allowed to marry a Jewish or Christian woman. It is obvious that one marries someone for love and friendship. If friendship between Muslims and Jews or Christians was forbidden, then why would Islam allow a Muslim man to marry a Jew or Christian woman? It is the duty of Muslims to patronize Muslims. They should not patronize any one who is against their faith or who fights their faith, even if they were their fathers and brothers. Allah says: “O you who believe! Take not for protectors (awliya') your fathers and your brothers if they love unbelief above faith. If any of you do so, they are indeed wrong-doers.” (Al-Tawbah : 23) In a similar way, the Qur'an also tells Muslims that they should never patronize the non-Muslims against other Muslims. However, if some Muslims do wrong to some non-Muslims, it is Muslims duty to help the non-Muslims and save them from oppression . The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said that he himself will defend a Dhimmi living among Muslims to whom injustice is done by Muslims. But Islam also teaches that Muslims should not seek the patronage of non-Muslims against other Muslims. They should try to solve their problems among themselves. Allah Almighty says, “Let not the Believers take the unbelievers as their patrons over against the Believers…” (Aal-'Imran :28) He Almighty also says: “O you who believe! Take not for patrons unbelievers rather than Believers. Do you wish to offer Allah an open proof against yourselves?” (An-Nisaa’:144) May Allah guide you to the straight path, and guide you to that which pleases Him, Amen. Allah Almighty knows best.
Taken from http://www.islamonline.net/completesearch/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=8886
"Whoever changes his Islamic religion, kill him. Sahih Al-Bukhari (9:57)"
This talks about apostasy. The punishment for apostasy, in Islam, is the death penalty.
A response by Shaykh Taha Jaber Alalwani
Question : Can you please explain about Apostasy? Can a person born to Muslims has to be killed if he/she chooses a different religion? Is it a Hud? How about non Muslims coming and leaving Islam? I have read Hadith that people came to Islam in the time of Prophet and left, like a Christian who was also scribe and later went back to his religion, but was not killed by Prophet. Other one when a person gave alleigance to Prophet and later retracked his oath.
Answer: Apostasy is not a simple act. It has several parts. We cannot simply say that someone left the religion. We must look at the reasons and actions that come before leaving the religion.
Suppose one becomes an expatriate and fights against the U.S, (for example). This person would be tried and convicted of treason and usually killed.
But if one leaves a religion without causing harm to others or engages in treason, then there is no punishment. The Qur'an is blatant about the fact that there is no compulsion in religion.
Some people at the time of the Prophet would convert in the morning and leave Islam at night. The Prophet then announced that those joining in Islam in good faith are welcome, but those who join only to then leave and discredit Islam and then encourage others to fight Islam, that is considered treason and treated as a crime in the same way as U.S. law.
You can read the following article which discusses this topic :
You may also read the following article on this topic :
"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush. (Koran 9:5)"
Here is the response :
Question : (The most often question asked by non-Muslims) Doesn't Islam promote violence, bloodshed and brutality since the Qur'an says that Muslims should kill the kuffar where ever they find them.
Answer : A few selected verses from the Quran are often misquoted to perpetuate the myth that Islam promotes violence, and exhorts its followers to kill those outside the pale of Islam.
1. Verse from Surah Taubah
The following verse from Surah Taubah is very often quoted by critics of Islam, to show that Islam promotes violence, bloodshed and brutality: “Kill the mushrikeen (pagans, polytheists, kuffar) where ever you find them.” [Al-Quran 9:5]
2. Context of verse is during battlefield
Critics of Islam actually quote this verse out of context. In order to understand the context, we need to read from verse 1 of this surah. It says that there was a peace treaty between the Muslims and the Mushriks (pagans) of Makkah. This treaty was violated by the Mushriks of Makkah. A period of four months was given to the Mushriks of Makkah to make amends.
(The oft-quoted Qur'anic verse about killing of disbelievers pertains to only a particular period when the disbelievers had rejected a treaty. It is like generalising the American army order to kill Vietnamese guerillas for all time to come.)
Otherwise war would be declared against them. Verse 5 of Surah Taubah says: “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is oft-forgiving, Most merciful.” [Al-Quran 9:5] This verse is quoted during a battle.
3. Example of war between America and Vietnam
We know that America was once at war with Vietnam. Suppose the President of America or the General of the American Army told the American soldiers during the war: “Wherever you find the Vietnamese, kill them”. Today if I say that the American President said, “Wherever you find Vietnamese, kill them” without giving the context, I will make him sound like a butcher. But if I quote him in context, that he said it during a war, it will sound very logical, as he was trying to boost the morale of the American soldiers during the war.
4. Verse 9:5 quoted to boost morale of Muslims during battle
Similarly in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 the Quran says, “Kill the Mushriks where ever you find them”, during a battle to boost the morale of the Muslim soldiers. What the Quran is telling Muslim soldiers is, don’t be afraid during battle; wherever you find the enemies kill them.
5. Shourie jumps from verse 5 to verse 7
Arun Shourie is one of the staunchest critics of Islam in India. He quotes the same verse, Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 5 in his book ‘The World of Fatwahs’, on page 572. After quoting verse 5 he jumps to verse 7 of Surah Taubah. Any sensible person will realise that he has skipped verse 6.
6. Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer
Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 6 gives the answer to the allegation that Islam promotes violence, brutality and bloodshed. It says: “If one amongst the pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure that is because they are men without knowledge.” [Al-Quran 9:6]
The Quran not only says that a Mushrik seeking asylum during the battle should be granted refuge, but also that he should be escorted to a secure place. In the present international scenario, even a kind, peace-loving army General, during a battle, may let the enemy soldiers go free, if they want peace. But which army General will ever tell his soldiers, that if the enemy soldiers want peace during a battle, don’t just let them go free, but also escort them to a place of security?
This is exactly what Allah (swt) says in the Glorious Quran to promote peace in the world.
The above answer was given by Dr. Zakir Naik.
Another response to this question :
Question : I hope you scholars will help me get rid of these confusions I have been having since the Sept 11 incident, especially as regards some Qur’anic verses. These verses totally contradict what Muslims say that their religion calls for peace and denounces violence. Mind you, though not a Muslim, but I don’t hate Muslims. I just need shedding light on some issues. How would you interpret a verse like this “And slay them wherever ye catch them.”? (Al-Baqarah: 191) and “…But if they turn away, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks”? (An-Nisa': 89) I will really appreciate your quick reply.
Answer : In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.
Thanks for the question you posed, it’s very interesting, and that is why we also try our best to furnish you with appropriate answer. When we Muslims state that Islam is a religion of peace, we are not trying to prove something unreasonable or solve a crossword puzzle. Rather, we are just stating a fact backed by clear-cut evidence and unquestionable proofs. Even we don’t need to state this fact, for Islam, in itself, is self-explanatory, in terms of its meaning, its noble teachings and the core of its message conveyed by the Prophets Allah sent to mankind. Shedding more light on this issue, here is the statement made by Dr. Muzammil H. Siddiqi, former President of the Islamic Society of North America, in replying a similar question: “Thank you very much for your kind words that you do not hate Muslims. Hate is not good for any person. I want to assure you that we Muslims also do not hate non-Muslims, be they Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhist or followers of any religion or no religion. Our religion does not allow killing any innocent person regardless of his or her religion. The life of all human beings is sacrosanct according to the teachings of the Qur’an and the guidance of our blessed Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him and upon all the Prophets and Messengers of Allah. The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, “…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.” (Al-An`am: 151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, “Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)” (Al-Isra’: 33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See Al-Ma’idah: 32)
However, your question is valid, then how come the Qur’an says, “kill them wherever you find them…” as it is mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah: 191 and Surah An-Nisa’: 89. The answer is simple and that is, you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. Read the full text and see what is said: “Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.” (Al-Baqarah: 190-194)
For your second quotation also read the full text: “They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them." (An-Nisa’: 89-91)
Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one anywhere? These verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized. It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions.
I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians.
Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them: “When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)
“When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deutronomy 20:10-17)
Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, sparefor yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)
Even in the New Testament we read the following statement attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples: “I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence." (Luke 19:26-27)
Allah Almighty knows best.
"Take him and fetter him and expose him to hell fire. (Koran 69:30-37)"
Plz read the entire Surah (Chapter).
After i read the verses before this verse, i understood that the Day of Judgement is being mentioned here. Let me quote some verses from this Surah, and you will yourself understand.
"And he that will be given his Record in his left hand will say: "Ah! would that my record had not been given to me! "And that I had never realized how my account (stood)! "Ah! would that (Death) had made an end of me! "Of no profit to me has been my wealth! "My power has perished from me!"... (The stern command will say): "Seize ye him and bind ye him "And burn ye him in the Blazing Fire. "Further make him march in a chain whereof the length is seventy cubits! "This was he that would not believe in Allah Most High "And would not encourage the feeding of the indigent! "So no friend hath he here this Day. "Nor hath he any food except the corruption from the washing of wounds "Which none do eat but those in sin." (Surah 69, ayahs 25-37)
You see, brother, they conceal the truth.
Anyway, i will try to continue later on, Insha Allah.
servant of Allah.
RE: American viewpoint of Islam
Servant of Allah:
Thank you for your response. This is the type of evidence I was looking for. Something that I could show them & state, "here, this is what it truly means."
one man's view
Greetings, may the guidance and blessings of God the Creater...be with us all. The problem with much of the argumentation going on about islam is that people have been forming opinions overnight without caring to diligently study...and be moved by the spirit of truth when they find it. Personally I am weary of all the contention and advisarial posturing in american society these days. I am ashamed for the hate mongers and racists among us who have been swept away by bloodlust.
Greetings, may the Lord our God, Creator of Heaven and Earth give us wisdom and understaning minds...and the gift of a compassionate heart. I am weary of the war mongering and the gathering storm of war. My prayers are for reconcilliation and the rememberance of these teachings of Christ Jesus. Love the Lord your God with all your soul, all your heart...and love your neighbor as yourself......and further more the prince of peace said also this.....Love your enemies. Now what do all the madmen have to offer that is more poignant than that? Justice and mercy, dignity, humility, kindness,patience.....these are the things that make sense in the darkness of this world. Only the will of Allah is important, our short troubled lives are nothing without the blessings of Heaven. All the rest of our contentions lead nowhere.
Dear Tayeb, How can any organization of men lay claim to words of wisdom? What bothers you about that phrase, the fact that it is not attributed to another prophet? Of course this board is a study of Islam...and Mohammed certainly acnowledged the Biblical texts as relevant. Which part of that message is in conflict with Islam? None that I can see. Since this discussion is about how Americans view Islam, and some points were made about ideas on warfare taken directly from both Bible and Koran in a previous post...this is why I brought up the kernal of Christ's teachings , because it speaks directly to the point about tollerance of others and acceptance of God. My point is this...I feel that much of the posturing of Americans calling themselves Christians is contrary to the teachings of the man for which they name themselves. The status of Jesus as God or man is irrelevant to that point. Peace be with you...
Salam to all
The Holy Prophet SallAllahu-alayhi wasallam has said, "Know surely Jannah is in the shades of swords." (Paradise is under the shades of swords) (Saheeh Bukhari, Vol.1, p395)
The scholar Qurtubi RahamatulLahu-alayh states, it is remarkable that in such a short statement, the Messenger of Allah SallAllahu-alayhi wasallam has put such great emphasis in the path of Jihaad and with such eloquence.
In this Hadeeth, the Holy Prophet SallAllahu-alayhi wasallam has incited towards Jihaad and also mentioned the reward and virtue of Jihaad, inflaming the desire to use the sword in the face on the enemies and to fight such a fierce battle that the swords shade over the fighters. Under this shade lies the Paradise. (Fathul Bari, Vol.6, p110)
A scholar, Allama Ibne Jawzi states, the understanding of this Hadeeth is that, Jannah is achieved by doing Jihaad.
The above taken from ‘Virtues of Jihad’ A small book that can be found in any book shop. I hope the above explanation is helpful to you. Its like saying ‘money is under every keyboard’ meaning there is great benefit in working in the computing industry. Forgive me dear brother for that example..but the wording might not make sense first of all, but when one thinks and reflects upon the words of the prophet then all makes sense. As the prophet (saws) said ‘A man slips more by his tongue than by his foot!’- if you think about this saying..it does make sense and it is proven by evenyone..isn’t it?.
And jazakallah brother servantof allah, for that was very helpful and many muslims of the world are not able to ‘respond’ correctly to verses and hadiths that are raised similar to what brother matrix has given, and resulting in giving a ‘wrong’ image of islam. May allah, who has given us this deen, make us work for it and protect it. Ameen.
New Testament quote
I posted a response about Jesus who in the New Testament who says
"...bring them before me & slay them..." as provided by Servant of Allah.
Boy did I receive a response. They were very quick in informing me that this was a parable that Jesus was using to explain a concept.
They are so adamant about the Quran being violent & quote it all the time about how it promotes violence...yet when I posted this they were taken aback & explained how mistaken I was. How could I possibly post such nonsense? How could I be sooooo wrong about Jesus? How could I post such a thing & take it out of context when I am not a Christian & know not what I am reading?
Its ok for them to misquote & take the Quranic verses out of context, but they did not appreciate it when I did the same with the Bible & Jesus.
Very curious I thought....
Thank you Servant of Allah for providing that quote as the "leader of the pack" over on the other board is always going on about how Jesus never said any remarks about violence & that the New Testament is about Peace & Harmony only. Yet when I brought that verse from the Bible up they reacted instantly.
I also asked them if the God of the Bible is the same as the God of the Quran. They claim that they are totally different entities. I have never thought this & was surprised that they felt this way.
Any thoughts on this matter? Is the God of the Bible the same as the God of the Quran?
God is God in my view.
We also had an exchange about the OT & NT. One of them was lecturing me about how the God of the Bible is peaceful & not at all violent in the NT & how this was in contrast to Allah in the Quran. I asked them if the OT God was the same character as the NT God & they all said yes. Yet, when I asked about how similar the OT God is to the God of the Quran they denied this. Apparently the violence mentioned in the OT is not relevant to them. I guess it goes back to the final comment that they believe the God of the two books are not related or the same.
Know that this dialogue was going on between u and another bro, br. matrix...but thought that I would remind u of some verses from the Quran.
Firstly, in having dialogue with non-muslims...u have to be tolerant of their claims (no matter how false) to an extent so as not to be insulting to them. This is in order that they should not respond in like (insulting of the Quran). Patience and tolerance is a key in dialogue and dawa.
Something that we all have to work at constantly.
As well, remember the verse: 'you cannot guide those whom you love, but Allah guides whom He wills'...???
Very important for us all to remember at times like these...dialogues and confrontations with non-muslims. There are times when you can only convey just so much...and as long as you have done your duty in conveying the message in it's truth...then there is little more (if anything) that you can do. The rest is up to the individual concerned...and the guidance of Allah.
As well, there comes a time, in such confrontations, when it is best to reply:
'to you your religion and to me mine'
And then let them alone. State what you know, and what you desire to point out, and then let them be. For those seeking the truth, Allah will not lead them astray. It will come to them eventually. But for those seeking to diguise and conceal the truth, then their punishment will be awaiting for them...and double for those to whom has come the message.
May Allah guide us all to that which is best.
Peace be with you, all virtue comes from God alone. Even the Lord God most high is attacked by those who cannot control their tongues. Those who rush to defend their own cultural type, often forget truth and justice..and become hipocrites at any percieved provocation...and so more misunderstanding is brought into the world. According to the Christian book, Jesus was accused of being in league with Satan, by some of those who wished him harm...and we hear this kind of vexating spirit often in the world today. Ignorance is not limited to one type of people...all people everywhere carry forth their share of ignorance...which also leads to intollerance and racism. Mohammed, blessed be his name has been accussed of the same by others, and of course there are hate mongers and misguided individuals that believe it is possible to to call Allah a false God, or vice versa.....God the Merciful has all manner of abilities to do as he wills, beyond our comprehension or the sad musings of ego/ethocentric people. There is but one God, and Mohamed is his prophet...this does not contradict anything spoken in the Bible. In fact, decent God-fearing people have been wrongfully attacked althrough history, just as have the heathens. Agression and wrong doing are a universal problem, and begin with unkind thought, and loss of patience, and unwillingness to set right misunderstanding. The Bible also says that those who are quick to show anger, have a demonic quality. According to that observation...many of us have demonic qualities...God preserve us from those traits.
Assalamu Alaykum Wa Rahmatullah Dear Brother Matrix !
I apologize that i haven't finished replying to the article which you asked us to help you out with. I will try to finish replying, if i can, Insha Allah (Allah Willing).
Meanwhile, i did wish to address a few points that the Christians had raised at the site where you're discussing topics with them.
The point where these Christians talked about "moon worshipping", here are some articles to refute the lies that these Christians spread :
servant of Allah.
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Thank you all for your responses! Thanks especially for those links regarding "moon worhsip."
I have been blessed to come across this site.
May Allah's will guide us all.
Thanks for the reminder
I would appreciate any & all viewpoints regarding my posts.
However, I will keep that Quranic verse in mind in the future.
Does Islam Promote Violence?
Does Islam Promote Violence?
By: Javeed Akhter
The evangelist Franklin Graham and the conservative Christian commentator, Pat Robertson's assertion that Islam exhorts its followers to be violent against non-Muslims, are only two of the most prominent voices that are part of a rising cacophony of vicious criticism of the Qur'an. One can read and hear a whole range of negative opinions about this issue in the media. Few have taken an in depth look at the issue. What does the Qur'an actually say about violence against non-Muslims? Does it say what Robertson and Graham claim it does? Does it say that it is the religious duty of Muslims to kill infidels? But first some basic principles about reading and understanding the Qur'an. After all, studying the Qur'an is not exactly like reading Harry Potter. Like any other scripture there are rules that may be followed for a proper understanding of the text.
Muslim scholars suggest that those who read the Qur'an should keep at a minimum the following principles in mind. First, the reader should have an awareness of the inner coherence in the Qur'an. As the verses are connected to each other, the reader should study at the least, the preceding and following verses for a sense of the immediate context. Also the reader should look at all of the verses that deal with the same subject in the book. These are frequently scattered all over the scripture. The indices provided in many of the exegeses of the Qur'an as well as the books of concordance allow the reader to get this information relatively easily. Often there is information available about the occasion of revelation, the historical context, of a particular verse. This requires at least a cursory knowledge of prophet Muhammad's life. As Professor Fazlur Rahman of the University of Chicago would frequently point out, the Qur'an, in part at least, may be looked upon as a running commentary on the mission of Prophet Muhammad. Finally Qur'anic scholars advise us to analyze the way Prophet implemented a particular directive in a verse of the Qur'an in his own life and ministry. For all Muslims Prophet Muhammad was the ultimate exemplar of the Qur'an and its living embodiment.
Let us examine the verses in question with these exegetical principles in mind. One of the verses says "put down the polytheists wherever you find them, and capture them and beleaguer them and lie in wait for them at every ambush" (Koran 9:5). The immediate context, as Muhammad Asad (The Message Of The Qur'an) points out, is that of a "war in progress" and not a general directive. It was an attempt to motivate Muslims in self-defense.
Muslims were given permission to defend themselves around the time of Prophet Muhammad's migration from Makkah, where he grew up, to the city of Madinah where he spent the rest of his life. This occurred in the 13th year of his 23-year mission. The danger to Muslims in Makkah at this time was extreme and there was a real possibility of their total eradication. They were permitted to fight back in self-defense against those who violently oppressed them. "Permission is given (to fight) those who have taken up arms against you wrongfully. And verily God (Allah) is well able to give you succor. To those who have been driven forth from their homes for no reason than this that say 'Our Lord is God." Qur'an goes on to add, "Hath not God repelled some men by others, cloisters and churches and synagogues and mosques, wherein the name of God is ever mentioned, would assuredly have been pulled down." (Qur'an 22: 39-42)
On another occasion Qur'an says, "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but don't transgress limits; for God loves not the transgressor." The verse goes on to say "And fight them on until there is no more oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression."(Qur'an 2: 190-193)
Muslim scholars are of the opinion that war is permitted in self defense, when other nations have attacked an Islamic state, or if another state is oppressing a section of its own people. When Muslims were to fight a war they had to maintain great discipline, avoiding injury to the innocent and use only the minimum force needed. Striking a blow in anger, even in battle, was prohibited. The prisoners of war were to be treated in a humane fashion. However, this is only a part of Jihad that Muslims are allowed to practice. A greater Jihad is struggle against one's own inner self.
The word Jihad comes from the root Arabic word "Jahd," which means to struggle or to strive. It is understood by piety minded Muslims as a positive, noble and laudatory term. That is how most apply it in their personal, social, political and military lives. The history of the Muslim rulers, on the other hand, gives us examples of those who attempted to sanctify their wars of personal aggrandizement as wars for a noble cause by applying the label Jihad to them. A few even named their war departments as the departments of Jihad. This kind of behavior may be likened to a politician's attempt to wrap him in the flag. Such exploitation of the term should not be allowed to corrupt the original or the commonly understood meaning of the word, which is to strive for the highest possible goals, struggle against injustice and practice self denial and self control to achieve the moral purity to which all piety minded people aspire.
The "holy war" concept, for which many non-Muslims use the word Jihad, is foreign to Islam. Rather, it comes from a concept first used to justify the Crusades by the Christian Church during the middle Ages. The concept of "holy war" may even go back to the time when the emperor Constantine the Great allegedly saw a vision in the sky with the inscription on the cross, "in hoc signo vinces" (in this sign you will be the victor). The Arabic term, as has been pointed out by scholars, for "the holy war" would be al-harab al-muqaddas, which neither appears in the Qur'an or the sayings of the Prophet Muhammad (Hadith). Prophet Muhammad's wars were defensive wars against groups who sought to eradicate Islam and the Muslims.
It is interesting and useful for social scientists or philologists to study how the meaning and usage of words differ in different communities. Ironically the word "crusade," because of its association with the crusades in the middle ages, should have had a pejorative sense to it and yet the word has acquired an ennobled meaning in the West. This in spite of the fact that the Church itself, along with most historians, acknowledge the injustice of the Crusades and the atrocities done in the name of faith. On the other hand, the word "Jihad" which means for Muslims, striving for the highest possible goal, has acquired the negative connotation of the holy war.
It is clear from even a cursory study of the Qur'an that Islam does not permit, condone or promote violence. Just the opposite, it abhors violence and allows it only in self-defense. A claim to the contrary is no more than bad fiction.
The critics of the Qur'an should remember that if the Bible were similarly quoted out of context, it would appear to be an extra ordinarily violent scripture. I will leave Graham and Robertson to defend the violence in the Bible and the history of Christianity.
Javeed Akhter is the Executive Director of The International Strategy and Policy Institute www.ISPI-USA.org His latest book is titled "The Seven Phases Of Prophet Muhammad's Life."
Taken from http://iviews.com/Articles/articles.asp?ref=IV0208-1720
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God Bless You!
Servant of Allah,
Thank you very much for posting that url & article. It is perfect timing for a discussion I am ending.
I have decided to take advice from this board & move on with my discussions...their hatred only grows the more I post. I am a poor representative of Islam & wish I knew more to make my posts a little more convincing. :( I have used some of what I have learned from this board but it only enrages them further...
In any case, I have said what I wanted to say & think I shall leave it at that.
Thank you all very much for your guidance, assistance, & patience.
I still have questions & will post them...if you don't mind!
May Allah guide us all to peace & wisdom.
Matrix...I don't think that you are a 'poor muslim' as you have put it. We are all weak in our knowledge and experience, and that is why we should share with one another, just as we are doing here on this discussion board. The mere fact that you have come to us or other muslims with your questions and need for help, indicates quite strongly that you are not a 'poor muslim', but rather one who is seeking the help of others...which is a good sign, I think.
As for the anger rising from the non-muslims who you have been communicating with, I do not doubt that at all. Most probably, the forums which you are participating in do not have such strict regulations as what this forum does, and so you will experience there a greater surge in angry and hate-filled replies.
It is when the level of anger and hatred get to that level, that perhaps it is better to just leave it alone. State what you need to state, perhaps with proper daleel from Quran and ahadith to back it up, and then let them go along their angry way.
Not all people will see things the same way, and not all people will understand all things. And there will be many who will reject the message of Islam. Sad, but true. But then, we need to also remember that the basic responsibility upon us is to 'relay' the message...and not attempt to force it upon anyone. The rest is for them-if they choose to accept or reject it.
And in the end, these conversations are nothing of a contest-there is no winner or loser. But for those who reject the message of Islam, certainly it is they who are the losers. Not us who are muslims and remain muslims, nor Allah, nor Islam. But those who reject the message. For sadly they have had the message come to them, and yet they choose to reject.
May Allah help you, and help us all to relay that which has come to us.
And please, of course, do keep up the good work, and continue your correspondence!!
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